Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

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Adrian Allan
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Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:33 pm

A simple question, that probably needs no explaining.

What do you think?
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ddray
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by ddray » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:38 pm

I would say jazz rather than classical music.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:39 pm

ddray wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:38 pm
I would say jazz rather than classical music.
so you mean that jazz players have more talent on average, or earn less money, or both?
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ddray
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by ddray » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:43 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:39 pm
ddray wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:38 pm
I would say jazz rather than classical music.
so you mean that jazz players have more talent on average, or earn less money, or both?
Both I think. At least outstanding classical players are usually well-educated and can land teaching jobs or find other outlets. I don't think that's quite as true for jazz musicians. Just my impression.

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:45 pm

I suspect you mean the highest talent to earnings ratio.
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Adrian Allan
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:47 pm

ddray wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:43 pm
Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:39 pm
ddray wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:38 pm
I would say jazz rather than classical music.
so you mean that jazz players have more talent on average, or earn less money, or both?
Both I think. At least outstanding classical players are usually well-educated and can land teaching jobs or find other outlets. I don't think that's quite as true for jazz musicians. Just my impression.
Which is correct. I don't know what country you are from, but even guitar teaching is a fairly low paid job for those who cannot quite make it as a performer. In the UK, bricklayers get substantially more income than somebody who is just a few steps away from being a concert artist; sad, but true.
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Adrian Allan
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:50 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:45 pm
I suspect you mean the highest talent to earnings ratio.
lol - sorry, yes -

but somehow that sounds wrong???

Would "the world's lowest earnings - talent ratio" be better?
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ddray
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by ddray » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:51 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:45 pm
I suspect you mean the highest talent to earnings ratio.
Yeah, that's what I figure. I believe the premise is the talent level among classical musicians is way above income potential.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:53 pm

Can a moderator please change this thread to "has classical music got the world's lowest earnings-talent ratio"?

Many thanks
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:55 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:45 pm
I suspect you mean the highest talent to earnings ratio.
Yes, he must mean that.
I'm no mathematician but surely a low ratio between earnings and talent means you're getting paid commensurately for your talent. A high ratio between those two factors means you're brilliant and you're being paid peanuts.
However, seeing as talent is an unmeasurable quantity its ratio to earnings is not calculable in an actual mathematical sense.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:06 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:55 pm
Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:45 pm
I suspect you mean the highest talent to earnings ratio.
Yes, he must mean that.
I'm no mathematician but surely a low ratio between earnings and talent means you're getting paid commensurately for your talent. A high ratio between those two factors means you're brilliant and you're being paid peanuts.
However, seeing as talent is an unmeasurable quantity its ratio to earnings is not calculable in an actual mathematical sense.
Yeah, but you know what I mean. don't you?

We've all probably met and seen world class talent who are just about scraping a living.
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ddray
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by ddray » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:17 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:55 pm
Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:45 pm
I suspect you mean the highest talent to earnings ratio.
Yes, he must mean that.
I'm no mathematician but surely a low ratio between earnings and talent means you're getting paid commensurately for your talent. A high ratio between those two factors means you're brilliant and you're being paid peanuts.
However, seeing as talent is an unmeasurable quantity its ratio to earnings is not calculable in an actual mathematical sense.
No but I don't think precise mathematical measurement was in mind.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:25 pm

ddray wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:17 pm
Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:55 pm
Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:45 pm
I suspect you mean the highest talent to earnings ratio.
Yes, he must mean that.
I'm no mathematician but surely a low ratio between earnings and talent means you're getting paid commensurately for your talent. A high ratio between those two factors means you're brilliant and you're being paid peanuts.
However, seeing as talent is an unmeasurable quantity its ratio to earnings is not calculable in an actual mathematical sense.
No but I don't think precise mathematical measurement was in mind.
Totally true - for all the years of practice, probably 20,000 (never mind 10,000) hours to make it to concert standard and be at the top of your game, classical musicians are paid a pittance.

So low, that only a quasi-religious level of dedication to your art would make you choose it as a career.
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:26 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:06 pm
Yeah, but you know what I mean. don't you?
Yes :D .

I think, as someone mentioned, that jazz is the biggest sufferer in this respect. As the old saying goes - a rock guitarist plays three chords to a thousand people and a jazz guitarist plays a thousand chords to three people.

ddray
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Re: Has classical music got the world's lowest talent-earnings ratio?

Post by ddray » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:29 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:25 pm
ddray wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:17 pm
Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:55 pm


Yes, he must mean that.
I'm no mathematician but surely a low ratio between earnings and talent means you're getting paid commensurately for your talent. A high ratio between those two factors means you're brilliant and you're being paid peanuts.
However, seeing as talent is an unmeasurable quantity its ratio to earnings is not calculable in an actual mathematical sense.
No but I don't think precise mathematical measurement was in mind.
Totally true - for all the years of practice, probably 20,000 (never mind 10,000) hours to make it to concert standard and be at the top of your game, classical musicians are paid a pittance.

So low, that only a quasi-religious level of dedication to your art would make you choose it as a career.
Well one thing we probably could calculate with some degree of mathematical precision is the number of talented performers and the potential audience. I think it would show that there's a glut of performers, and I think that's the essential problem. With so many trained musicians running around it's hard to stand out. That goes even more so for pianists, violinists and cellists I would imagine. Of course violinists and cellists have the "ensemble" route that guitarists don't. :D
Last edited by ddray on Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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