Funny regulations ...

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simonm
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Funny regulations ...

Post by simonm » Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:14 pm

We were just looking up getting some borax power to use to wash down an area where there was some wood rot. Much to our surprise this is now banned throughout the EU for consumers. Why it was banned is anyone's guess.

What is amusing is that a different EU document published by the EU health and safety organization (around the same time as the ban was being formulated) suggests using borax (or pumice) instead of "excessively abrasive soaps" to wash your hands and forearms before applying protective creams. So on one side it is too danger for use in the home, but if you are at work you can happily wash yourself with it. Hmmm … what am I missing.

On the positive side, lots of great conspiracy theories about as to why it was banned so you can spend hours down that rathole. In the meantime we will have to figure out what else to use.

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guitarrista
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by guitarrista » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:22 pm

Hmm.. I found the source information very quickly - all you have to do is go to the Wiki article and see the last couple of references.
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simonm
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by simonm » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:12 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:22 pm
Hmm.. I found the source information very quickly - all you have to do is go to the Wiki article and see the last couple of references.
If we are looking at the same article, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax), there is absolutely nothing there that supports the EU health and safety regs. Quite the contrary.

e.g. one states
It clearly appears that human B exposures, even in the highest exposed cohorts, are too low to reach the blood (and target tissue) concentrations that would be required to exert adverse effects on reproductive functions.
(Journal of Toxicity http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1 ... 012.675301)

As I said a great rathole and some lovely conspiracy theories.

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guitarrista
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by guitarrista » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:47 pm

simonm wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:12 pm
guitarrista wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:22 pm
Hmm.. I found the source information very quickly - all you have to do is go to the Wiki article and see the last couple of references.
If we are looking at the same article, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax), there is absolutely nothing there that supports the EU health and safety regs.
Reference no.40 there is the actual EU document., and it spell the reasoning quite clearly - they think there is a risk for pregnant women/fetus from exposure so they wanted it reclassified to include that warning. It's a policy decision. That's all I was pointing out. (also see ref. no 41).
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Andrew Pohlman
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:25 pm

The real reason there is so much controversy is that Ronald Reagan used to do commercials for "20 Mule Team" brand borax products. Ronnie boy was the only American president (that we know of) who had Alzheimer's while sitting in office. Simultaneously, Nancy Reagan was the only first lady, that we know of, to use Astrology to guide decisions. Yeah, any controversy is due to the Reagans and taint by association! :D

On a more serious note, one of the products being used nowadays to avoid the lengthy list of allergens in modern household products is borax. Dyes, perfumes, ISO chemicals that are in products for God know why ... cause people to have nasty allergic reactions. Borax is simple, safe, generally considered hypoallergenic, and very low toxicity.

As more evidence, there is actually an industrial town in Southern California called "Boron". You can guess what they mine there. Nobody in that town, nor the workers, have any ill effects from the process of mining boron and making borax. Living near refineries, on the other hand, has serious medical consequences!
Last edited by Andrew Pohlman on Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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guitarrista
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by guitarrista » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:33 pm

I don't think it is banned, just relabelled - and that's only for the form of it that gets sold in bulk/by itself - not when it is part of a detergent. It is another matter whether that made some businesses stop carrying it (in that form).

Also, apparently there is a substitute for borax (sodium borate, sodium tetraborate, or disodium tetraborate) powder - Sodium Sesquicarbonate.
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Michael.N.
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by Michael.N. » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:46 pm

Borax was used as a wood preservative or as a woodworm treatment. I still have a box of it somewhere but I don't think I've ever used it. Some fiddle makers think that it was applied to Strads and Guarneri's, which is probably why I bought it. Not sure there's much evidence for it being used by Strad or Guarneri.
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SteveL123
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:34 pm

Boric acid, not borax, is an insecticide, good for killing ants, cockroaches etc. I recall using it in an apartment infested with cockroaches many years ago. Sprinkle the white powder along the wall baseboards. Worked great!

Tubbers
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by Tubbers » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:20 pm

We have a box of Borax in our pantry. It was delivered right to our house from Safeway by 20 mule team.
Help!

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Guitar-ded
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Re: Funny regulations ...

Post by Guitar-ded » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:55 pm

That'll account for the traffic chaos in your part of the world then. :wink:
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