Good music sense

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
As02
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Good music sense

Post by As02 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:01 pm

My teacher loathed to me. The reason is that I still hardly picked up the techniques of expressive performance in terms of accurate pulse and good rhythms, even after several years of learning. He advised me not to persist learning music by attending his lessons. He emphasized that I was a bad student and he did not want to teach me unless I changed my learning attitude to which Mr. yo yo Ma stressed. I felt no good. :?: (p.s. Some say My English is Fool(bad Slang F letter word) My broken English !

Andrew Pohlman
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Re: Good music sense

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:19 pm

I happy that your teacher is so successful that he can insult and turn away paying students! Just keep playing. Find a more welcoming teacher! We all have different goals and we all learn at different rates. You need a teacher who accepts that people are different and encourages you. Besides, all teachers know that the bread and butter is in beginners. Teachers are lucky to have even a few advanced students and the bulk of the roster is beginners.

I say again : I'm glad your teacher is so successful he can insult and turn away paying customers! He's an idiot. Keep playing ! And get a metronome - practice with it. :D Do not be discouraged!
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Rick Hutt
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Re: Good music sense

Post by Rick Hutt » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:29 pm

I pretty much agree with Andrew. Some of my students had severe time limitations so their progress was similarly affected. I counselled patience for them and tried to practice it myself. The only thing I did notice was his commenting on your "attitude". Did you take the lessons and his suggestions seriously? Did you practice enough so that you could show a bit of progress from lesson to lesson? If so, find another teacher and carry on. Best of luck to you
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Kent
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Re: Good music sense

Post by Kent » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:30 pm

Just change teachers. Both of you will benefit.

MessyTendon
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Re: Good music sense

Post by MessyTendon » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:38 pm

Don't use a metronome, that is bad advice. Any teacher who uses a metronome, is worthless. Don't bother with them.

Do you want a mechanical device to tell you what to think about music? Think for yourself.

If your teacher uses a metronome, forget it move on.

Music needs to be taught without fear of expression. Metronomes are shameful, insipid devices.

Want to learn beats? Clap your hands...count beats, use your ears.

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bert
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Re: Good music sense

Post by bert » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:17 pm

I think another teacher would be a good idea. I find it very strange that he doubts your abilities, but not his own.
MessyTendon wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:38 pm
Don't use a metronome, that is bad advice. Any teacher who uses a metronome, is worthless. Don't bother with them.

Do you want a mechanical device to tell you what to think about music? Think for yourself.

If your teacher uses a metronome, forget it move on.

Music needs to be taught without fear of expression. Metronomes are shameful, insipid devices.

Want to learn beats? Clap your hands...count beats, use your ears.
Clapping your hands while playing guitar seems a bit difficult. I completely disagree with you. Although I dislike using a metronome, they are very useful to get the right rhythm and pace too.

MessyTendon
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Re: Good music sense

Post by MessyTendon » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:34 pm

No bert, I mean clap the rhythm's in sight reading, not while playing :) anybody who can clap beats while playing would get all the babes in Spain while playing flamenco.

I don't think rhythm is ever constant as metronome advocates insist on. The metronome is just a tool they say...but I say you can learn to sight read better clapping and humming.

The metronome encourages a mechanical sense of musicality. It's contrived and disgusting. But there is nothing wrong with using a metronome :)

Andrew Pohlman
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Re: Good music sense

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:06 pm

MessyTendon wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:34 pm
... I don't think rhythm is ever constant as metronome advocates insist on. The metronome is just a tool they say...but I say you can learn to sight read better clapping and humming...
I would agree that, in the long run, you need to learn how to artistically move the tempo. But if you are not in control of the tempo, that is not so good. Metronomes can teach you to maintain a steady tempo. After that, you modify the tempo for artistic expression as much as you want. Steady tempo is a necessary skill if you are in an ensemble. Returning to the main tempo after a ritard requires the ability to maintain a steady tempo. It's a basic skill and a metronome can help.

I still practice with a metronome for some pieces or sections. Once I know I'm not speeding up (my personal bad habit) then I ditch the metronome and move the tempo when and where I want it to go. But I agree that a metronome should be used in a limited capacity and only when needed.

For As02, you can try a metronome and see if it helps. In the long run, just don't get addicted to it.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Good music sense

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:38 pm

As Andrew says in the post above; if it is true that your sense of timing is a problem, use of a metronome is definitely the best way to sort it out, that and another (hopefully more polite and helpful) tutor who will work with you on how to address the issue, including creative and interesting ways to use the metronome and to avoid whatever pitfalls MessyTendon is concerned about.
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CathyCate
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Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan

Re: Good music sense

Post by CathyCate » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:56 pm

Forget that teacher, and start fresh with a new one. You deserve another opportunity.
Have you tried dancing to improve your sense of rhythm and timing? Might be worth a shot.
All the best!

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Steve O
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Location: Calgary, Canada

Re: Good music sense

Post by Steve O » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:40 am

I've always had trouble with time. I can tap my foot to the beat while listening to music but my brain/ears/hands/feet/and eyes can't seem to synchronize when listening to the metronome and learning to play the music; I don't know where the beats should be and my brain ignores the metronome clicks. Frustrating, but c'est la vie.

It doesn't help that many classical guitar pieces don't have obvious beats like pop music does. It also really doesn't help that I am not a musical person; I don't know what the songs should sound like and I have real trouble bringing a tune to memory (i.e. I can listen to a song a hundred times, but the next day I often cannot, for the life of me, bring the tune into memory. Once I hear a few beats then my brain clicks and I can recall the song, but to initiate the song myself is difficult).

Beats that aren't on the 1-2-3-4 also throw me off. e.g. the Habanera where a beat falls on an "and" defeats my logical engineer's brain.

Once I know the music really well (i.e. my fingers know where to go by themselves), then my brain has enough reserve power to start consciously correcting timing errors.

The best way for me to learn the timing of a piece is to play along with a recording. I usually have the score in GuitarPro and export a MP3 of the song (with metronome clicks included in the recording) onto my iPhone. I use software on the phone to slow down the tempo of the song until I can play along with it.

One instructor (who I had taken lessons with for 3 years) lost his patience one night when trying to get me to tap some beats on one hand and tap sub-beats with my foot. I just could not do it no matter how many times I tried. He was under stress for other reasons and my inability to do something that he considers so simple broke him. Three years was too long to stay with one instructor anyway; a change of instructor is sometimes a good thing.

After six years of lessons with an hour of practice almost every day for those six years I'm now an intermediate guitarist that nobody wants to listen to except me.

Find what works for you and enjoy what you are doing.

tom3949
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Location: Liverpool

Re: Good music sense

Post by tom3949 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:29 am

I love the 'professionalism' of your tutor. If someone is willing to persist at something because they enjoy it what type of person is going to shoot them down in flames as opposed to helping them progress and continue with the enjoyment? It sounds like a new start is what you probably need. I also totally agree with the above comment:

"Find what works for you and enjoy what you are doing."

An excellent statement that has much wider application.

Peskyendeavour
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Re: Good music sense

Post by Peskyendeavour » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:45 pm

A good teacher should be able to demonstrate how to express musicality. It may take a while to learn, but he/she can also learn some patience and teaching techniques. They can for example, play the same passage several times expressing it in different manner whether it be dynamically, emotionally, bringing out the melody/harmony in good measure.... And even contrast it with the opposite and demonstrate the difference of what they mean by good and bad.

In my own experience, only bad teachers who cannot teach gives up on students and tell them to go away. Or tell them they are not made for the instrument they chose to play. I was once told that I was useless at managing my ten fingers so give up the piano and you got to be joking you want to play the guitar, are you going to manage having six strings and harmony? You better stick with single note instruments that are easy, like the recorder...

*sigh* unfortunately such teachers exist.

Good teachers, will find a way to overcome a difficult student, whatever the issue. And remain encouraging.

Keep playing, as long as you are happy playing, find someone else who can gently take you by the hand in the right direction.

All the best for the future.

Luis_Br
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Location: Brazil

Re: Good music sense

Post by Luis_Br » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:12 am

Bad timing and rhythm is generally a problem of concentration and focus.

andries veldhuis
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Re: Good music sense

Post by andries veldhuis » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:51 pm

"Find what works for you and enjoy what you are doing."

Indeed, play, enjoy and so on, you will be OK,

Andries

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