The Proms

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
Guitar Nut
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The Proms

Post by Guitar Nut » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:48 pm

The BBC Proms are well under way. While I doubt that we'll see any classical guitar there, I wonder. When was the last time CG featured in the Proms? And what is there other than Concierto de Aranjuez for the guitar?

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Adrian Allan
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Re: The Proms

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:38 am

Julian bream did Malcolm Arnold's concerto about 20 years ago, which was filmed and at least parts of it can be found on Youtube.

In terms of the potential for other pieces, I think that a Villa Lobos concert would be good, with a performance of the guitar concerto. I don't think the other concertos would draw in the crowds.
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Gary Macleod
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Re: The Proms

Post by Gary Macleod » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:04 am

The Giuliani concerto? A great piece of classical music, it has everything, virtuosic scales and arpeggios with an expressive slow movement.

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muirtan
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Re: The Proms

Post by muirtan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:19 pm

Back in the mid 90s I heard John Williams play some of Peter Sculthorpe's music at the proms.

Tedesco concerto?

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Adrian Allan
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Re: The Proms

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:51 pm

I don't think any concerto apart from the Aranjuez would draw an big enough audience, unless featured in a concert with the composer's other works - as was the case when Bream played the Arnold concerto. I wonder how many people have heard of Castelnuovo-Tedesco outside of guitar circles.
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muirtan
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Re: The Proms

Post by muirtan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:00 pm

Actually Adrian I think the problem is with classical music itself people just want easy listening and the proms is starting to pander to them. My husband knew a lot of the classical guitar composers even before i started playing as he knew about classical music and has this weird brain where he remembers things ;) If someone has a real interest in classical music I suspect they would have heard of the composers if not the actual piece and hopefully if they liked the style would be interested enough to hear the piece. These days with youtube etc there is no excuse for not listening to most music which is featured in concerts apart from world premiers and rare pieces ofcourse.

When I read the thread title I thought you were going to rant, the same as I and hubby do, about how dumbed down it's getting.

Gary Macleod
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Re: The Proms

Post by Gary Macleod » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:24 pm

Also I think if a big name performer was playing , e.g. Williams ,they could programme any concerto.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: The Proms

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:59 pm

muirtan wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:00 pm
Actually Adrian I think the problem is with classical music itself people just want easy listening and the proms is starting to pander to them. My husband knew a lot of the classical guitar composers even before i started playing as he knew about classical music and has this weird brain where he remembers things ;) If someone has a real interest in classical music I suspect they would have heard of the composers if not the actual piece and hopefully if they liked the style would be interested enough to hear the piece. These days with youtube etc there is no excuse for not listening to most music which is featured in concerts apart from world premiers and rare pieces ofcourse.

When I read the thread title I thought you were going to rant, the same as I and hubby do, about how dumbed down it's getting.
I won't make that rant because on the whole classical music is a great thing, even if it is Classic FM meets the most overplayed music ever - because the reason it is overplayed is that it is great music in the first place. eg. the Planet Suite. However, in an ideal world, the programme would be interspersed with more unknown works, but as we know, with orchestras struggling to survive, it is all a matter of bums on seats.
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Adrian Allan
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Re: The Proms

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:00 pm

Gary Macleod wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:24 pm
Also I think if a big name performer was playing , e.g. Williams ,they could programme any concerto.
Now that Bream and Williams have retired, we don't have a household name in the guitar world that the general public (mainly) know. We don't have a superstar like Lang Lang.
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Gary Macleod
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Re: The Proms

Post by Gary Macleod » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:13 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:00 pm
Gary Macleod wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:24 pm
Also I think if a big name performer was playing , e.g. Williams ,they could programme any concerto.
Now that Bream and Williams have retired, we don't have a household name in the guitar world that the general public (mainly) know. We don't have a superstar like Lang Lang.
You're right, I would love to see the BBC give David Russell a chance at the proms.

astro64
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Re: The Proms

Post by astro64 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:59 pm

I think Barrueco and Xuefei Yang have played at the Proms. I seem to remember seeing some videos of that at some point.

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muirtan
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Re: The Proms

Post by muirtan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:07 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:00 pm
Gary Macleod wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:24 pm
Also I think if a big name performer was playing , e.g. Williams ,they could programme any concerto.
Now that Bream and Williams have retired, we don't have a household name in the guitar world that the general public (mainly) know. We don't have a superstar like Lang Lang.
I hate to say this but hubby and I run quizzes and John Williams to the ordinary man on the street writes film music. We had one question asking about Segovia ie what was his first name and only 1 team got it right and they liked classical music infact they were members of a local amateur orchestra so not typical.

However once introduced to classical they like it. Valerie Hartzell gave a concert at a local social club and the 2 people behind the bar who wouldn't have chosen to come actually enjoyed it and are now singinjg her praises It's the word classical which turns most people off.

We need to get children young and intoduce them to classical music in a fun way sadly in the UK music in the curriculum isn't considered important so the children who tend to get music lessons paid for by parents already come from a background where classical music is valued.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: The Proms

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:44 pm

^ you are totally correct.

I agree that the word classical puts people off. In an ideal world, the route to classical would be a natural one. I started off strumming, and playing folk songs, moving into simple things like Greensleeves and Malaguena and then the proper classical repertoire. This for me felt totally natural, and that is the reason I'm still doing it now.

If schools even encouraged all kids to get a melody out of a recorder once a week, it would be a start. Sadly, adults probably view classical music as an elite "other world" because they have had zero first-hand grounding in melody, harmony, and all the other elements that work together to produce music, and the gulf is too large to bridge.

Ideally, I would start kids on more of a folk route than the "you must practise your scales to pass your grades" route, as that can also put some people off for life, especially if they had bad memories of stressful music exams or overbearing teachers.
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Peter Lovett
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Re: The Proms

Post by Peter Lovett » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:18 am

muirtan wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:00 pm
Actually Adrian I think the problem is with classical music itself people just want easy listening and the proms is starting to pander to them. My husband knew a lot of the classical guitar composers even before i started playing as he knew about classical music and has this weird brain where he remembers things ;) If someone has a real interest in classical music I suspect they would have heard of the composers if not the actual piece and hopefully if they liked the style would be interested enough to hear the piece. These days with youtube etc there is no excuse for not listening to most music which is featured in concerts apart from world premiers and rare pieces ofcourse.

When I read the thread title I thought you were going to rant, the same as I and hubby do, about how dumbed down it's getting.
ABC Classical FM plays the proms in Australia and some of the recitals I have heard are not easy listening. I suspect that most people think of the proms as being the last night but it is the largest music festival in the world and the variety of works played in enormous. As to the amount of classical guitar played there, I have no idea.
I wonder how many people have heard of Castelnuovo-Tedesco outside of guitar circles.
If anyone with any interest in classical music then they should know the name as he wrote for more than the guitar.
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Les Backshall
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Re: The Proms

Post by Les Backshall » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:53 am

muirtan wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:00 pm
Actually Adrian I think the problem is with classical music itself people just want easy listening and the proms is starting to pander to them. My husband knew a lot of the classical guitar composers even before i started playing as he knew about classical music and has this weird brain where he remembers things ;) If someone has a real interest in classical music I suspect they would have heard of the composers if not the actual piece and hopefully if they liked the style would be interested enough to hear the piece. These days with youtube etc there is no excuse for not listening to most music which is featured in concerts apart from world premiers and rare pieces ofcourse.

When I read the thread title I thought you were going to rant, the same as I and hubby do, about how dumbed down it's getting.
I wouldn't agree it's dumbing down, more broadening its appeal. It's a far larger festival than it ever used to be, often with at least two events a day, and the 'heavy' stuff is still there. You might not be so keen on the songs of Scott Walker, but you've still got Scheonberg, Stravinsky, Ligeti, Mahler, Monteverdi - even Bruckner and Rihm....

Have a look at the full programme and honestly tell me it's not a great classical music festival.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/rcrbj5/series

Les
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