English language peeves

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:26 am

Why axe such a dumb question?
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Malcolm
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Malcolm » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:35 am

khayes wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:53 pm
One I hear in the southern US frequently is "I seen ..." instead of "I saw ..."
Quite common in Australia especially among ex footballers who become TV commentators:

I seen him when he done it and he come down and really give him one!

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Malcolm
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Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:50 am

We say "all honor and glory IS yours..." (I can't say where we say it). This must be correct; it's widely established. But why isn't it "honor and glory ARE yours"...? Glory and honor together form a plural. But of course each noun is singular. Help me out! this isn't a peeve, but a real question.

edit: or is it that together honor and glory form one thing, which is unnamed?
Last edited by Jeffrey Armbruster on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lagartija
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Re: English language peeves

Post by lagartija » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:17 am

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:50 am
We say "all glory and honor IS yours..." (I can't say where we say it). This must be correct; it's widely established. But why isn't it "glory and honor ARE yours"...? Glory and honor together form a plural. But of course each noun is singular. Help me out! this isn't a peeve, but a real question.

edit: or is it that together glory and honor form one thing, which is unnamed?
I always thought that it was a shortened version of "All *of* the honor and glory is yours", which makes honor and glory a single item since you get all of it! :-P


My peeve is incorrect use of affect and effect and the use of impact as a verb.
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Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:40 am

Lagartija must be right. You'd never say, all dogs and cats IS furry; dogs and cats do not form a compound unit, even though the 'all' might imply that. However, ALL honor and glory can form a compound unit and so agree with the singular preposition 'is'. There may be some theology involved here which we won't go into.

p.s. I had honor and glory reversed originally. Thanks O wise lizard!
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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:29 am

stevel wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:40 pm
I like other peculiarities like those words you rarely hear without part of a phrase or companion word, especially more archaic ones, like "flotsam and jetsam". Rarely do you get one or the other, they usually come together, if used at all.
Ironically, at sea one would rarely come across both at the same time.
tyke wrote:
Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:Another Irish one - they (very) often pronounce the letter aitch with an extra aitch at the beginning.
That's quite widespread in England and Wales too.
True. I have my car radio tuned in to either Ireland (for the ensuing hilarity) or France (to distract from the weather) as I cannot bear English disc-jockeys. The thing about aitch in Ireland is that virtually everyone is picking up the mispronunciation - I've even heard some (mis)correct themselves during conversation with journalists/interviewers who have it wrong (there's an awful lot of discussion of the Irish health service, the H.S.E.).
tyke wrote:It seems to me that about a generation ago English teachers became 'trendy' and didn't bother so much with 'correct' pronunciation.
As I understand it this was not a move towards being more "hip" but a prescribed educational strategy calculated to reverse the (imagined) suppression of creativity.

Another one - local to me - people here will insist that, "I aren't doing that."

Tubbers
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Tubbers » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:44 am

Drives me crazy when I hear someone say this word. :?

Heighth

Heighth is a colloquial variant of height formed by analogy with similar measurement terms such as length, breadth, width, and depth, which end in th. Heighth might be considered incorrect in formal writing, and no dictionaries that we know of list it as a living word. Its use is a common peeve among people who consider themselves careful users of English.
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kervoas
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Re: English language peeves

Post by kervoas » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:08 am

Like, like every time it's like used meaning like anything but similar or like,a fondness for like, something.
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Rasputin
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Rasputin » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:19 am

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:14 pm
No mention of the use of 'I' as an object pronoun yet?
This is kinda a counterexample, I think.

There's an interesting linguistic conundrum about what the rule for compound subjects / objects should be, but I think the traditional rule is pretty clear in that if the compound is an object, then all of its elements must have object case, whereas if it is a subject, then all of its elements must have subject case. Few people seem to grasp this and instead they learn "do not say '... and me'", so you have grammar snobs saying "Jane came down to the Hamptons with Bill and I". This makes me chuckle no end.

YT seems to have been totally taken over by ads for Grammarly recently. One of them features somebody explaining that she had no idea how many mistakes she was making until she tried Grammarly. I can't help thinking 'I bet they weren't really mistakes, but they've certainly tied you to the product'. What a concept!

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Re: English language peeves

Post by Rasputin » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:27 am

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:29 am
Another one - local to me - people here will insist that, "I aren't doing that."
Interesting one. Who says 'am't', though? Would you just avoid contracting 'am not' altogether, or might you use 'aren't' in some circumstances - for example:

You're not due in on the 12th.
Aren't I? I'd have sworn I was on the rota.

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:57 am

Rasputin wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:19 am
you have grammar snobs saying "Jane came down to the Hamptons with Bill and I".
This error has a long history though. I remember hearing it on BBC Radio Solent in the Seventies being taught as good English (in preference to "Jane came down to the Hamptons with me and Bill"), and there's even an example of it in Compton Mackenzie's Whisky Galore (written in 1947).
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Re: English language peeves

Post by randalljazz » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:02 am

pictures are "hung". men are "hanged". ( ;) )
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Cass Couvelas
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Cass Couvelas » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:36 am

Honing in on
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Invite. When the Queen's official invitations become the Queen's official invites, only then will I bend to popular will on that one . . .
Last edited by Cass Couvelas on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Rasputin
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Rasputin » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:02 am

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:57 am
Rasputin wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:19 am
you have grammar snobs saying "Jane came down to the Hamptons with Bill and I".
This error has a long history though. I remember hearing it on BBC Radio Solent in the Seventies being taught as good English (in preference to "Jane came down to the Hamptons with me and Bill"), and there's even an example of it in Compton Mackenzie's Whisky Galore (written in 1947).
He were are, endowed with a wonderful capacity for language, based on a tacit understanding of grammar far richer than anything worked out intellectually, and yet we feel that, rather than giving free rein to our natural ability, we have to vet its output using half-baked rules worked out by mavens as a model of - here's the real irony - the very system that produced the output we are vetting. Besides being a total waste of brainpower, this robs us of our spontaneity.

It's curious that speakers of other languages don't seem to get hung up on I/me in compound subjects and objects, at least as far as I can tell. I don't think 'ma mère et moi sommes allés' is regarded as a mistake (is it regarded as a contraction of 'ma mère et moi, nous sommes allés')? 'Ma mère et je sommes allés' is totally impossible. I do not know about German but I would be willing to bet they don't have a problem either. I wonder about Latin / Greek.

Rasputin
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Rasputin » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:04 am

Cass Couvelas wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:36 am
Honing in on
I like that one. A colleague of mine has been known to say 'as dull as dishwater', 'there was a guy hiding in the foil-age' and (my favourite) 'a damp squid'.

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