English language peeves

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pogmoor
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Re: English language peeves

Post by pogmoor » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:49 pm

I rather like the idea of "post dramatic stress disorder".
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Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:11 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:43 pm
I like unpack. It's often better than deconstruct, which people use when they mean analyse.
Yes 'deconstruct' is a particular method of analysis that has nothing to do with plain ol' analysis or reading between the lines. It's annoying to hear people use it as a synonym for 'analyze' or 'unpack'.

By the way do single quotation marks like above suffice or do I need to use double? I'm lazy and don't want to hit the shift key.
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Evocacion
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Evocacion » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:19 pm

Fowler says single quotes are preferred. If you need quotes within quotes then you use double for the inner ones.

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Re: English language peeves

Post by JohnH » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:33 am

Before reading this thread I have never heard of the phrase "the big ask" instead of "the big request ". I have lived in Texas and Alabama since 1985.

There is the confusion of the use of "lay" (transitive verb) and "lie" (intransitive verb) that annoys me.

DerekH
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Re: English language peeves

Post by DerekH » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:13 pm

"Fowler says single quotes are preferred"

Although I have used double quotes just to wind up Fowler, I venture to suggest you might have needed quote marks too...

By the time I stumbled across this wonderful discourse, there are now so many pages to read that I can't read all the wailings and tooth-gnashings.

So if this has been mentioned before, I will garrotte myself with a left-over G-string and never dark these doors again...

But as a Brit, I am based in Havant. So when someone tells me I'm based OUT of Havant, I really struggle to understand why OUT has any relevance at all :-)
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DerekH
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Re: English language peeves

Post by DerekH » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:16 pm

"There is the confusion of the use of "lay" (transitive verb) and "lie" (intransitive verb) that annoys me."

There is also, at least in the UK, the use of the word lay to mean something rather different and, er, bed-related.

There was a wonderful out-take on TV of a chicken farmer saying "The secret of a good lay is a firm bottom"... Even the farmer realised what he'd said just that microsecond too late...
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Rasputin
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Rasputin » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:39 pm

JohnH wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:33 am
There is the confusion of the use of "lay" (transitive verb) and "lie" (intransitive verb) that annoys me.
Yeah this one annoys me too. It's getting to the point where the meaning is going to shift and "lay down" is going to become standard English - but I still find it jarring.
DerekH wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:13 pm
But as a Brit, I am based in Havant. So when someone tells me I'm based OUT of Havant, I really struggle to understand why OUT has any relevance at all :-)
I think the idea is that your base is somewhere you travel away from / out of in order to do your thing, like a military base - so while I don't really like this construction, I can see the logic. Would you also object to "he looks after all our UK sites, working out of Havant"?

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:11 pm

DerekH wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:13 pm
I am based in Havant.
I was born in Fareham, but I have been based in London on and off for most of the last 39 years since I was 18.
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DerekH
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Re: English language peeves

Post by DerekH » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:11 pm

"Would you also object to "he looks after all our UK sites, working out of Havant"?"

Yes, because I work IN Havant.

Some guitarists travel, but I teach 39 students so they come to me, so my base is, well, my base :-)

I take your point, don't get me wrong, but a base is the central point - where one is based. You're saying, if I can twist the language just a bit, that it's OK to say "he's based out of where he's based?"

Anyway my logic is based *in* this email, not out of it :-)

Best regards and don't reply, I'm being mischievous :-)
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simonm
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Re: English language peeves

Post by simonm » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:41 pm

I suspect the "based out of" is shipping related and originally for fishing boats, tramp steamers and the like.

"remediating a teak deck" is something ugly I saw a few days ago. Fix or renovate seems more appropriate to me.

hpaulj
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Re: English language peeves

Post by hpaulj » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:51 pm

I don't know if this was applicable to the teak deck case, but apparently 'mold remediation' has a professional meaning

https://stoprestoration.com/2016/11/14/ ... mediation/

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Re: English language peeves

Post by DerekH » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:05 pm

"but apparently 'mold remediation' has a professional meaning"

Not in England it doesn't!

"Mould removal" might do, but I've noticed that (can I say this?) that Americans use more syllables than Brits for the same concept...

"Internalisation" -> "Learn"
"Burglarise" -> "Burgle"

Am I criticising the world at large? Not really, just saying that if the topic subject is "English language", we ought to start a new thread if it's American-only....

:-)

(Hoping that the musical alphabet doesn't get split in the same way!)
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Rasputin
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Rasputin » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:35 pm

DerekH wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:05 pm
"but apparently 'mold remediation' has a professional meaning"

Not in England it doesn't!

"Mould removal" might do
Not really - remediation is not just removing the mould, it is also dealing with the damage it's done.
, but I've noticed that (can I say this?) that Americans use more syllables than Brits for the same concept...
Aluminum? Semi-trailer? They use different words... some of them are bound to have more syllables. They do seem to have a habit of treating nouns formed from verbs as is they were originally nouns and recreating the verb when one already exists, which leads to new words like 'burglarize' and the replacement of irregular past tenses with regular ones, as in 'broadcasted' or 'subletted'. Languages do differ in the extent to which they are noun oriented or verb oriented, so maybe US English is more noun oriented than UK English.

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Re: English language peeves

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:48 pm

"but I've noticed that (can I say this?) that Americans use more syllables than Brits for the same concept..."

And I've noticed that Brits use more letters in the same words for the same concept. and perhaps a tendency to repeat the word 'that'?

Our language as a whole could use more Latinization when it comes to spelling. And spell checker is telling me that I've misspelled 'Latinization'.
Last edited by Jeffrey Armbruster on Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English language peeves

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:50 pm

nm
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