I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
Rognvald
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:21 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rognvald » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:13 am

Cipher wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:52 pm
Probably an acquired taste but from a pure music composition (and lyrics as well) standpoint the musicals of Stephen Sondheim are the most sophisticated and profound works in this genre of the 20th century. Company, A Little Night Music, Passion, Sunday In The Park With George, Sweeney Todd, etc..are all masterpieces.

Hi, Cipher,
Just for a little clarification in re: terms . . . when you say the above-referenced music "are all masterpieces," . . . in comparison to what music? Mary Poppins? Jekyll and Hyde? Dirty Dancing? I think few music aficionados would quarrel with the statement that Wagner"s "Ring Cycle" is a masterpiece. Do you consider these works on that level? If not, what is your measuring stick? Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

dory
Posts: 1748
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:29 am
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by dory » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:20 pm

I hate anything by Andrew Lloyd Weber so Cats is out for me. I haven't bothered to listen to Hamilton. Now you have me curious. I will listen to something, expecting my old age crankiness to come through as well. However, I am not a huge fan of musicals in general. Some of the music in some of the old ones is nice (although even in them there can be a certsin cheesiness factor) but they often feel to me like a bad compromise between a play or movie and a musical performance. The plots are often not that great and itbfeels artificial when they start to sing. That said, I spent a lot of time singing Oklahoma and Sound of Music to my mom while she was dying, along with her obsessive favorite--Tea for Two. She loved musicals and I loved her.
Dory

Cipher
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:29 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Cipher » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:47 am

Rognvald wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:13 am
Cipher wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:52 pm
Probably an acquired taste but from a pure music composition (and lyrics as well) standpoint the musicals of Stephen Sondheim are the most sophisticated and profound works in this genre of the 20th century. Company, A Little Night Music, Passion, Sunday In The Park With George, Sweeney Todd, etc..are all masterpieces.

Hi, Cipher,
Just for a little clarification in re: terms . . . when you say the above-referenced music "are all masterpieces," . . . in comparison to what music? Mary Poppins? Jekyll and Hyde? Dirty Dancing? I think few music aficionados would quarrel with the statement that Wagner"s "Ring Cycle" is a masterpiece. Do you consider these works on that level? If not, what is your measuring stick? Playing again . . . Rognvald
I dunno a lot of people detest Wagner and the sheer magnitude and opera genre of The Ring is not a fair comparison.

I would say that Sondheim's musicals and songs are on the same level of Kurt Weill's songs and stage works like The Threepenny Opera which I consider a masterpiece of classical 20th century theater + music.

Give a listen to a few of Sondheim's musicals and songs and let me know what you think! :D

User avatar
Andrew Fryer
Posts: 2461
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:13 pm
Location: London SE5

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:47 am

I saw Sunday in the Park with George once. I thought that it expressed much philosophy I had previously heard on the Muppet Show.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

Cipher
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:29 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Cipher » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:19 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:47 am
I saw Sunday in the Park with George once. I thought that it expressed much philosophy I had previously heard on the Muppet Show.
Wouldn't say that's a bad thing, many episodes of the original Muppet Show are absolutely brilliant! :)

Lovemyguitar
Posts: 2922
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Canada

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Lovemyguitar » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:04 pm

celestemcc wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:21 pm
Rocky Horror is a movie musical; are we talking stage shows?
Actually, it was a stage show first ("The Rocky Horror Show"), and then two years later, the film version was made (adding "Picture" to the title). It still runs as a stage show from time to time.

Rognvald
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:21 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rognvald » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:23 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:47 am
I saw Sunday in the Park with George once. I thought that it expressed much philosophy I had previously heard on the Muppet Show.
Andrew,
Can you imagine the effect of generations of brain dead Americans who grew up watching the Muppets? And we wonder why America is in decline. . . although, some in America are said to believe the NFL is a step on the path to Satori. Hmmmmmmm . . . Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

Dirck Nagy
Posts: 518
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 4:47 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Dirck Nagy » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:26 pm

reposted!

Obviousness, predictability, banality, insipid mawkishness, ...whats there not to hate?
Last edited by Dirck Nagy on Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2015 John H. Dick
1994 Larry Breslin ("Deerhead")
1952 Vincente Tatay

Kevin Cowen
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:03 pm

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Kevin Cowen » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:51 pm

You heard a piece of music you didn't like.
Wow. Hold the front page.
Cheers for sharing that with us.
Bangs head on desk.

Rognvald
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:21 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rognvald » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:33 am

Kevin Cowen wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:51 pm
You heard a piece of music you didn't like.
Wow. Hold the front page.
Cheers for sharing that with us.
Bangs head on desk.

Kevin,
Have you ever been passionate about ANYTHING in life? If so, then perhaps you can relate to the polite vitriol expressed by some of us on this Forum. When they have an exhibition of "performance art" or "shock art( a turd in a toilet bowl)" in say, the Art Institute of Chicago, you are degrading the experience for all but the dull-witted and "hip" while offending and degrading those artists who have achieved greatness through talent, hard work, and inspiration. Do you place a Van Gogh, Rembrandt, Gauguin or DaVinci in the same room as the turd? And, what then is its significance? We live in a world today where people are afraid to express their feelings for fear of being criticized for perfectly legitimate ideas and statements. How can Art prevail if there is no litmus test or standard and why should we pretend that the mindless, insipid hamburgers heard in a Broadway musical are anything but that . . . ? Rock Music, Rap, Broadway Musicals, Country Western and the likes of Yanni and John Tesch are music for the masses. Let's not pretend they are something else or elevate them to a level that decidedly they do not deserve. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

Jeffrey Armbruster
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:07 am

nm
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

gingko
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by gingko » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:22 pm

I'm glad to find this thread. I'm taking a singing class with the idea of being a better chorus member. Everyone else, it seems, loves the modern musical and there's lots of discussion about current shows and singers. I find the singing so boringly similar--really liked JCSS when it first came out but can't abide Lloyd Webber now and don't particular enjoy belting. Give me Gilbert & Sullivan or even West Side Story, but I'll keep an open mind and look more into Sondheim. In class, I think I should just smile and say nothing.

Rick Hutt
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:03 pm
Location: Oak Paark, IL

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rick Hutt » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:44 pm

Many fine thoughts here. I want to take a small issue with some of the thoughts regarding "Hamilton", which I loved. To think of it as "rap" sin't all that accurate. There are hip hop elements, but there is also British invasion, soul, and a nod to some real old timey music hall ("No One Else Was In The Room Where It Happened". I think Sondheim will be performed for centuries, "Sweeney Todd" has already been presented in opera houses. I guess musicals, like all art forms evolve. My favorite of all time was "Man of La Mancha", but I'm biased because I did 1,200 performances of it in a tour in the 70s.
2010 Pimentel & Sons Concert Grand
1970 Taurus (Barcelona)
2009 Ramundi flamenco blanca
1962 Martin 0-16
2000 Martin 000-18
1963 Epiphone 12 Str

Cipher
Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:29 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Cipher » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:50 pm

Rognvald wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:13 am
Cipher wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:52 pm
Probably an acquired taste but from a pure music composition (and lyrics as well) standpoint the musicals of Stephen Sondheim are the most sophisticated and profound works in this genre of the 20th century. Company, A Little Night Music, Passion, Sunday In The Park With George, Sweeney Todd, etc..are all masterpieces.

Hi, Cipher,
Just for a little clarification in re: terms . . . when you say the above-referenced music "are all masterpieces," . . . in comparison to what music? Mary Poppins? Jekyll and Hyde? Dirty Dancing? I think few music aficionados would quarrel with the statement that Wagner"s "Ring Cycle" is a masterpiece. Do you consider these works on that level? If not, what is your measuring stick? Playing again . . . Rognvald
I answered your question(s) but you didn't acknowledge them - should I expect you to be this way in the future? If so I'll just stay quiet. Thanks. A few other posters in this thread have expressed their admiration for Sondheim's music so my opinion is validated.
Last edited by Cipher on Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Steve Kutzer
Posts: 1404
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:11 pm
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Steve Kutzer » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:52 pm

I pretty much agree with the OP. There was a heyday, and I still adore musicals like Guys & Dolls, West Side Story, Kiss Me Kate. But ever since Andrew Lloyd Weber came to dominate the scene, I'm lucky to find one even hummable song. "A Sunday in the Park with George" was so incredibly boring to me. Shadow and light! But it won a ton of awards, so maybe it's me.

Cats and Rent each have that one tune. $120 per ticket and a long show for 1 song is not my cup of tea.

But I am a philistine. I can rarely stand dramatic plays. I greatly prefer musicals. But generally enjoy them best if they were created in the 30's to 60's.
See my technology (and guitar!) site CIO Dojo

Return to “The Café”