I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
Jeffrey Armbruster
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:39 pm

" To call the words in this fine poem a cliche from a person who is not a writer or who has not studied serious Literature borders on the comic."

Rognvald, you know nothing about me. I have plenty of strong opinions, thanks. I try not to insult everyone who disagrees with me. The thing is, Frost's lines are a favorite of what you dismiss as the unwashed masses. I'm guessing they would be the most likely to be uttered if you asked Everyman to recite something from memory. So you see, you're slopping around with us schmucks after all!


Roethke, Great; Cezanne--meh? that's your judgement? Well, there you have it. Perfectly valid, which just proves that taste is broad and there's no accounting, as is said.
Last edited by Jeffrey Armbruster on Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

Rognvald
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:21 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rognvald » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:01 pm

"Frost's lines are a favorite of the unwashed masses. " Jeff


Jeff,
This, of course, is a classic that would never be uttered by a schmuck ... .a schmekel perhaps . . . but not a schmuck. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

User avatar
oski79
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9171
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 4:12 pm
Location: Sebastopol, California

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by oski79 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:36 pm

Please note that this thread is being monitored. Disagreement should not result in members denigrating each other's taste or musical knowledge, nor should anyone claim that his opinion, based on personal taste, is somehow more valid than the next person's.
“People may say I can’t sing, but no one can ever say I didn’t sing.” --Florence Foster Jenkins

Jeffrey Armbruster
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:51 pm

My apologies, Oski. Just to clarify, I was referencing Rognvald's mention of the 'unwashed masses' and claim to be among them myself. I was being ironic. Not about being unwashed, but the rest.
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

Rognvald
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:21 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rognvald » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:45 pm

So, to finish our amazing journey into the world of thread drift, I wanted to respond to the Cezanne/Gauguin comment by Jeff. I would challenge Jeff or anyone on this forum to provide just one example of a Cezanne painting that spoke with the poetry, imagination, and profundity of these following works by Gauguin. I could easily list more but I invite you to explore a sample of this exemplary artist's work. The paintings are:

Christ in the Garden of Olives
When Will you Marry?
Primitive Tales
The Yellow Christ
Woman with a Flower
Spirit of the Dead Watching
The Seed of Areoi
Sacred spring, Sweet dreams
Annah the Javanese
Where do we come from? What are we? Where are we going?
O Taiti
The Sorcier d'Hiva Oa

For those of us who are serious about Art(Music, Poetry, Fiction, Painting, Sculpture), we must first attain technique and then find a voice since technique alone will sentence you to the dungeon of the banal. Cezanne was a good technician but he never found a voice. And, after all, is that not the reason we want to communicate through our music? Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

Rognvald
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:21 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rognvald » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:58 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:08 pm
Rognvald wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:44 pm
Andrew Fryer wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:46 pm
Someone needs to read a good book about Gauguin!

Why not try "Noa Noa--The Tahitian Journal" which, to me, serves as an exemplary autobiography of his life? Gauguin was the real deal. Playing again . . . Rognvald
Yeah, thanks, I read Noa Noa, which is a book by him, not about him.
From what I can remember reading about him in the 80s, he would have been quite comfortably off (he spent enough money buying land and building houses), it's just that he only painted the breadfruit, he didn't eat any - for his own consumption he bankrupted himself importing French Champagne, Cognac, caviar and foie gras.

Andrew,
When an author writes a book about a period in his life with his thoughts, feelings, and emotions, how could the book be "not about him?" What would you call it? Secondly, your biographical memory of Gauguin leaves something to be desired. Gauguin left a career as a banker in France, left his wife and left his family to move to Tahiti. He chose Art over material success in life. His paintings from Tahiti define the essence of Gauguin as an Artist and have given us one of the greatest poets of all time. If he had not gone to Tahiti, he would not have discovered his voice. Gauguin, like Van Gogh, died believing he was a failure and was by anyone's standards--not wealthy. Any money left in his estate was the result of an auction of his existing paintings after his death. However, if he were wealthy as you have inferred, would that in any way diminish the legacy of his Art? The only thing that matters in an Artist's life is his Art. Everything else is advertising. Playing again . . ., Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

Laudiesdad69
Posts: 1174
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:26 am

Rognvald wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:33 am
Kevin Cowen wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:51 pm
You heard a piece of music you didn't like.
Wow. Hold the front page.
Cheers for sharing that with us.
Bangs head on desk.

Rock Music, Rap, Broadway Musicals, Country Western and the likes of Yanni and John Tesch are music for the masses. Let's not pretend they are something else or elevate them to a level that decidedly they do not deserve. Playing again . . . Rognvald
There are a few well crafted examples of songs in each of these genres, but they are few and far between in my opinion. Even Yanni has a few well crafted bits of music, but as far as being music for the masses, I agree in a general sense. The problem is that the general listening public hasn't had the benefit of being exposed to classical music, or the instruments used to make the music. In my town they are cutting music education from the schools, and by the time a person leaves for higher education, if they do at all in my country, the only music a lot of people have been exposed to is what Dad played in the car on the way to dropping the kiddos off to school before heading to the mill.
When I was in high school, we had a music appreciation class. I can't remember if it was required, but some of the kids clearly didn't want to be there. I learned a lot from that class, and it was my first exposure to truly great music. It was my first taste of classical music, and we learned about certain elements of music like harmonies, and we learned about the composers of such music, etc.

So I guess such appreciation of truly great music, and what makes it great, has to start with the education system. It's a shame that music education gets cut just so that things like football can stay. And as far as I'm concerned, musicals are just as intolerable as rap.

User avatar
Contreras
Posts: 735
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:13 am
Location: In the Wind

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Contreras » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:05 am

Back to the question ... because there's such a paucity of decent tunes out there. Sondheim could do it.

Just my opinion ... musicals don't appeal to me, nor does opera.

Lloyd Webber -----> 💩
Put down the bagpipes ...
... and no one gets hurt.

Rognvald
Posts: 148
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:21 am

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Rognvald » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:45 pm

"So I guess such appreciation of truly great music, and what makes it great, has to start with the education system. It's a shame that music education gets cut just so that things like football can stay. And as far as I'm concerned, musicals are just as intolerable as rap."
Laudiesdad69


Very well said, LD. And, this is symptomatic of the decline of our public education system in the US where the prevalence of the Bell Curve in grading, the dumbing down of the curriculum to allow underachieving children to feel "self-worth"(an insidious form of delusion), and deletion of Art and Music programs create a generation of poorly educated automatons whose exposure in life to the "Arts" represents the least common denominator of human sensibility and intelligence. And, of those children who are fortunate to be reared in an upper-middle-class family or better, the public school system is no longer an option if they want their children to get even a passable education. And, although in principle I am not opposed to progress and technology, the focus of American education is decidedly aimed at the tech fields and a child who seeks to pursue a liberal arts education is inviting a place in the unemployment lines after graduation and certainly beyond. We are a nation in decline. It shows clearly in our National Test scores, the abysmal level of our public education system and the generations of present and future Americans who view art and creativity as represented by the likes of public entertainment for the masses and steadily declining opportunities for serious, talented musicians, artists, and writers. The Fall of Rome began with the erosion of values that made the empire great and was completed by the incursion of the Germanic Tribes from Central Europe that finished, once and forever, the greatness that once was Rome. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

Jeffrey Armbruster
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:27 pm

" the dumbing down of the curriculum to allow underachieving children to feel "self-worth"(an insidious form of delusion)"

Frankly, no child should feel any sense of self worth until they've read all of The Great Works--in the original. We need to constantly remind them that they're failures until they've met Minimum Cultural Standards. I think they spend far too much time enjoying life.
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

User avatar
Andrew Fryer
Posts: 2461
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:13 pm
Location: London SE5

Re: I can't stand the music from modern musicals, in general... why is that?

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:31 pm

The Grandeur that was Rome
The Greatness that was Babylon
The Glory that was Greece
The Might that was Assyria
Ah, it brings a tear to my eye!
Meanwhile, according to Terry Gilliam, the Imagination that was Germany was finished once and forever by the Empiricism that was France.
I wonder why they keep pronouncing Kassel as Karzel.
Maybe they're just full of cr*p
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

Return to “The Café”