DHL and CITES

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zavaletas
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Location: Tucson

DHL and CITES

Post by zavaletas » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:30 pm

I have a flamenco guitar coming from Spain which because it has a bridge and headplate made of Indian rosewood, required a CITES permit. It was sent on Aug 17, and came with the wrong copy of the permit, so it was sent back-- long delay in Spain while correct copy was provided and again went thru Spanish authorities. It lands in DHL in Cincinnati where it languishes--awaiting US Fish and Wildlife clearance-- but there is a notation on the shipment that the CITES documents are missing so it sits. It turns out that it was sent back on the same tracking number it went out on, and the missing CITES notation was the original one-- finally I get this straightened out-- and it is sent to L.A. where it again sits waiting clearances-- the old notation is still on the shipment, and DHL want me to talk with USFW again. Delay and delay, error upon error, and the to top everything off, DHL starts billing for this shipment, I complained-- and they denied my complaint. I complained again that I have not received this shipment, and now I am furious at service errors and their failures-- and have yet to have receive my guitar, or even get an acknowledgement of my complaint from billing. I called DHL customer service this morning, and the service specialist told me that I would need to speak to some one in customs on Monday. I asked if there was a direct number I could call, and was told no you will have to call us back on Monday, and we will transfer your call. Each time I have had to call the Service Center, I have experienced at least a 45 minuet wait, and then another 15 minuets wait while the review their notes on this shipment-- (quite a read by now).

I hope this is not going to be typical of imports involving CITES-- but I am not hopeful.

James
Zavaletas-Guitars.com

Saturday, September 30, 2017 Location Time Piece
55 Clearance event LOS ANGELES GATEWAY, CA - USA 03:41
1 Piece
Friday, September 29, 2017 Location Time Piece
54 Clearance event LOS ANGELES GATEWAY, CA - USA 09:27
1 Piece
Thursday, September 28, 2017 Location Time Piece
53 Clearance event LOS ANGELES GATEWAY, CA - USA 09:35
1 Piece
Wednesday, September 27, 2017 Location Time Piece
52 Customs status updated LOS ANGELES GATEWAY, CA - USA 08:34
51 Clearance event LOS ANGELES GATEWAY, CA - USA 04:24
1 Piece
Tuesday, September 26, 2017 Location Time Piece
50 Departed Facility in CINCINNATI HUB - USA CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 05:27
1 Piece
49 Processed at CINCINNATI HUB - USA CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 04:44
1 Piece
Monday, September 25, 2017 Location Time Piece
48 Customs status updated CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 14:06
Sunday, September 24, 2017 Location Time Piece
47 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 22:13
1 Piece
Saturday, September 23, 2017 Location Time Piece
46 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 05:07
1 Piece
Friday, September 22, 2017 Location Time Piece
45 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 05:09
1 Piece
Thursday, September 21, 2017 Location Time Piece
44 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 04:57
1 Piece
Wednesday, September 20, 2017 Location Time Piece
43 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 05:21
1 Piece
42 Arrived at Sort Facility CINCINNATI HUB - USA CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 01:56
1 Piece
Tuesday, September 19, 2017 Location Time Piece
41 Departed Facility in EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK 22:14
1 Piece
40 Processed at EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK 04:45
1 Piece
39 Arrived at Sort Facility EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK 04:25
1 Piece
38 Departed Facility in BRUSSELS - BELGIUM BRUSSELS - BELGIUM 03:50
1 Piece
37 Transferred through BRUSSELS - BELGIUM BRUSSELS - BELGIUM 03:49
1 Piece
Monday, September 18, 2017 Location Time Piece
36 Departed Facility in MADRID - SPAIN MADRID - SPAIN 22:30
1 Piece
35 Processed at MADRID - SPAIN MADRID - SPAIN 20:42
1 Piece
34 Clearance processing complete at MADRID - SPAIN MADRID - SPAIN 20:06
Sunday, September 17, 2017 Location Time Piece
33 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 14:32
Friday, September 15, 2017 Location Time Piece
32 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:31
Thursday, September 14, 2017 Location Time Piece
31 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 22:02
Wednesday, September 13, 2017 Location Time Piece
30 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:55
Tuesday, September 12, 2017 Location Time Piece
29 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:29
Monday, September 11, 2017 Location Time Piece
28 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:52
Sunday, September 10, 2017 Location Time Piece
27 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 14:03
Friday, September 08, 2017 Location Time Piece
26 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:36
Thursday, September 07, 2017 Location Time Piece
25 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 22:25
Wednesday, September 06, 2017 Location Time Piece
24 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 22:19
Tuesday, September 05, 2017 Location Time Piece
23 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:52
Monday, September 04, 2017 Location Time Piece
22 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 22:27
Sunday, September 03, 2017 Location Time Piece
21 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 13:42
Friday, September 01, 2017 Location Time Piece
20 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:32
Thursday, August 31, 2017 Location Time Piece
19 Clearance event MADRID - SPAIN 21:31
Wednesday, August 30, 2017 Location Time Piece
18 Arrived at Sort Facility VITORIA - SPAIN VITORIA - SPAIN 22:05
17 Departed Facility in SEVILLA - SPAIN SEVILLA - SPAIN 20:35
16 Processed at SEVILLA - SPAIN SEVILLA - SPAIN 18:32
Thursday, August 24, 2017 Location Time Piece
15 Returned to shipper CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 21:32
1 Piece
Wednesday, August 23, 2017 Location Time Piece
14 Please contact DHL LOS ANGELES GATEWAY, CA - USA 18:09
13 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 04:01
1 Piece
Tuesday, August 22, 2017 Location Time Piece
12 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 04:02
1 Piece
Monday, August 21, 2017 Location Time Piece
11 Customs status updated CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 14:09
Sunday, August 20, 2017 Location Time Piece
10 Clearance event CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 23:07
1 Piece
9 Processed for clearance at CINCINNATI HUB - USA CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 23:06
1 Piece
8 Arrived at Sort Facility CINCINNATI HUB - USA CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 18:29
Saturday, August 19, 2017 Location Time Piece
7 Departed Facility in LEIPZIG - GERMANY LEIPZIG - GERMANY 09:16
Friday, August 18, 2017 Location Time Piece
6 Processed at LEIPZIG - GERMANY LEIPZIG - GERMANY 03:51
5 Arrived at Sort Facility LEIPZIG - GERMANY LEIPZIG - GERMANY 03:24
1 Piece
4 Departed Facility in SEVILLA - SPAIN SEVILLA - SPAIN 00:10
1 Piece
Thursday, August 17, 2017 Location Time Piece
3 Processed at SEVILLA - SPAIN SEVILLA - SPAIN 18:59
1 Piece
2 Customs status updated CINCINNATI HUB, OH - USA 10:57
1 Shipment picked up SEVILLA - SPAIN 14:53
James, Zavaleta's La Casa de Guitarras

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Kent
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by Kent » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:09 pm

Guitar nightmare

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bear
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by bear » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:53 pm

I would never import an instrument from outside of the continental U.S.. I've moved horses back and forth across the Canadian border and U.S. customs was a pain in my left cheek.
It might have been easier to have it sent to Mexico and drove across to get it.
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Giustina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

Carlos
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by Carlos » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:23 pm

what a crazy story, sorry for your troubles James, hopefully you will soon get the guitar.

Philosopherguy
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by Philosopherguy » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:37 pm

It is stories like this that make me believe that importing guitars in the future will just be too much work. It might pay for North American dealers to think of luthiers within either the US or maybe Canada. Likely the paperwork will be a bit easier between Canada and the US; at least the supply chain will be easier to deal with.

Spanish luthiers better get their European market moving and buying guitars! This could be a heavy burden financially on traditional markets for some of these makers.

Martin
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

powderedtoastman
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA

Re: DHL and CITES

Post by powderedtoastman » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:12 pm

Wow.
I have something coming where I am waiting on a CITES permit. Crossing my fingers that it doesn't become a headache like this!

If it's for personal use or maybe even low volume business I'd really like to see relaxed requirements, this is pretty ridiculous.
In my case just sitting in the dark waiting for the initial permit is kind of a downer. The wait is killing me!

Rasqeo
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by Rasqeo » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:10 am

It's not worth the hassle of importing nowadays. But local and support businesses in your area.

Rasqeo
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by Rasqeo » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:10 am

Duplicate post

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cefyn
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by cefyn » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:31 am

Did you pay by credit card? If so, I'd be tempted to contact the credit card company and tell them you've paid for something that hasn't arrived - let them do all the chasing about. At the very least you'd get your money back!

Cef.
1983 Robert Cross Spruce & IRW

simonm
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by simonm » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:38 am

It is quite interesting to think about this. In essence there is a wrong data entry in the computer system. Everything is controlled by the computer system.

Each operator along the way believes the computer until you complain and then the said operator reads the complete history and realizes that there is just a simple error. They make some additional entry to the history (limited no doubt by being obliged to click on a particular code that may or may not be appropriate) and then the drop the case as they have to "work" a minimum number of cases per shift. Every time you talk to some one you get some one different who goes through the whole case history again …

45 mins is plain unacceptable under any circumstances. How about sending them a bill for your time? Base on whatever you would charge for a performance.

Intune
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by Intune » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:39 pm

What a nightmare! Hope there's a happy ending for you soon, James. Coincidentally, I just commissioned a guitar from an Italian builder and, to avoid a similar problem, specified what I hope are all CITES-legal woods for the instrument: ziricote back, sides, and head plate; walnut bridge; etc etc. I'm also going to have the luthier tape to the inside and outside of the case copies of a signed letter specifying the exact woods used, which I hope will satisfy the curiosity of the CITES police and allow swift shipment. James, do you think you can get your customers and overseas luthiers to accept walnut bridges and the like, which, for better or worse, seems to be the wave of the future? The alternative -- securing all the dicey CITES paperwork and praying it does the trick -- might be a fast road to ulcers....
Intune
2010 Andres Marvi (cedar/Madagascar rosewood)

"...beware of all enterprises that require new clothes..." -- H.D. Thoreau

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zavaletas
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Location: Tucson

Re: DHL and CITES

Post by zavaletas » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:59 am

Thank you everyone for your supportive comments. I am leaning toward doing what Intune has done, just commissioning guitars made with woods that do not require CITES permits. Even so, the paper work has increased-- Lacey Declarations--for example require that the importer swear that the woods involved have been legally exploited according the laws of the country of origin (as interpreted by US courts)-- basically one needs to understand the commodity chain-- for each species and be sure that your luthier's woods have been obtained legally, and can be documented should the case arise.
This was the problem that Gibson fell into a few years back.
James, Zavaleta's La Casa de Guitarras

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zavaletas
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Location: Tucson

Re: DHL and CITES

Post by zavaletas » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:24 pm

Update. Guitar was delivered, thankfully unharmed, on October 5th. I am still waiting to hear whether my petition that they eat the shipping costs due to their errors will be granted. The one take away, sans the errors on DHL part, is that USFW is understaffed, and one must expect long delays in dealings with them.
James, Zavaleta's La Casa de Guitarras

powderedtoastman
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by powderedtoastman » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:00 pm

Glad to see you got a resolution!

My guitar that I'm waiting for, the tracking says that the package "contains articles prohibited by UPS for international shipment" and was returned to sender. I guess if you ever want to buy an instrument that is restricted under this treaty then you're going to have to be prepared to play the waiting game for some amount of time.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: DHL and CITES

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:58 pm

Glad you finally got your guitar James. Sounds like a happy ending after all. Around the first of the year I ordered to CGS FROM AUSTRALIA. They sat in customs in San Francisco for two weeks. They were shipped from austrailia at the very end of December, and one of the, even wasn't posted until Jan3. No paperwork with them. I was relieved when they finally arrived.

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