Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
amezcua
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Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:52 pm

Apologies for the intended joke in the title . I have just ordered two Bone Conductor headsets from China for myself and my wife . We both had a hearing test yesterday and we both have almost no hearing in our left ears . Most of these type of aids are made in China .
So Bone Conductors will be tested by us . We both have two hearing aids already which fall short of what we need . Yesterday I realised that silence is such a precious thing and I would hate to lose it . Almost more than sound .
The Bone Conductors bypass the tiny three bones that connect between the ear drum and the twirly cochlea . If medical people called them Twirly Cochleas we would know what they were talking about from the get go .
I checked with the technician audiologist and he pointed to the left side of the hearing graph. The first point is at 200 herz which is the lowest open string on a guitar . I wonder how bass players manage .

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Lorette
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Lorette » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:09 pm

Are you talking about a Cochlea implant or is this device external?

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:42 pm

Lorette wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:09 pm
Are you talking about a Cochlea implant or is this device external?
Somehow, I don' think you mail order a cochlear implant form China. :D But hey, it's a modern world. I could be completely wrong ! For all I know, it could be some new fangled uber technology.
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amezcua
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:23 pm

Yes Lorette it`s external . They look like a pair of headphones but they don`t cover the ears .They contact the cheek bones or sometimes the skull bones just behind the ears. Have a look at Aftershokz as an example . It`s not a new concept . Invented about 1930 I think but new digital technology has made great jumps forward lately in the sound quality . In my test I wondered how I could be hearing such Hi-Fi sounds .
The odd thing is with the 2 new hearing aids I was given , the right side one works very well but my left one is blurred and muffled and very noisy . Very similar to my old version . My 3 ear bones are not working properly . The Bone Conductor will skip past them .
I was keen to avoid any operations. Some implants are below the skin with another part outside and held in place with a magnet. Almost science fiction . There is a waterproof hearing version that swimmers use (to minimise boredom as they train?) .Divers use them too .
The Aftershokz have tapped into a bigger market by selling them to cyclists to allow their own ears to keep them aware of traffic. Cycle shops advertise them a lot . Where I travel these days there are masses of lycra clad Tour de France clones and they hardly ever turn their heads . No traffic sense at all . Maybe they are listening to their favourite singers . Something for the future . Hearing always declines as you get older anyway .

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Lorette
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Lorette » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:26 am

Help me to understand this. You are calling this hearing aids. Are you wearing this instead of traditional (in the ear) hearing aids, or is it a head set that you use with traditional hearing aids?
I wear two unitron hearing aids for everything except playing guitar. My guitars sound tinny with the aids. So I just lean very close to my guitar and it’s OK. I don’t really know how I sound. Do you think the aftershokz head set will help me hear my music better? The big river super store has many models of aftersholkz. It’s hard to choose.
Lorette :casque:

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by simonm » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:45 am

There is plenty on the net about this stuff. (e.g.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Bon ... Headphones ) As I understand it, essentially this is a different kind of hearing aid that passes the sound through the bone of your head rather than into to your ear.

One type rests on the the little lump of bone behind your ear. The bone transmits the sound. It is like the trick kids used to do when playing with tuning forks for the first time - putting it on their teeth and feeling the sound. I have know idea how effective these things are. When you travel by train or by plane you can kind of get a flavor of how it might work. When you rest your head against the side of the vehicle all the noise becomes louder even though the position of your ear with respect to the surface hasn't changed much. The side of your head is transmitting some of the sound.

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:11 pm

I still don't know if the thread is about hearing aids or headphones. I have experienced a pair of headphones that don't use the ears but rather the bones near your temples. They tend to be Bluetooth, and you use them to listen to music from an iPod or an iPhone. The advantage is you can not only listen to the background music (clearly), but you can also at the same time listen to everything going on around you through your ears if you are not deaf.

I'd have thought such bone conductors still rely on the inner ear mechanism functioning properly. So perhaps if there are types of deafness which only affect the ear-drum, then this technique is suitable?
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Pat Dodson » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:59 pm

From what I understand of explanations from my previous audiology colleagues, bone conduction hearing aids can be useful if there are any difficulties with transmission via ear canal or middle ear (there are many types of potential problem including those affecting the ear drum.) They are usually worn via a headband or adapted spectacles. For that reason they can be rather more obvious than behind or in-ear aids. Also some do find the pressure on the skin irritating or uncomfortable.

Also there is a little loss of effectiveness as a result of the vibrations having to pass through the skin before reaching the bone. That said, for some conditions they are very effective and they are easily put on and taken off.

Bone conduction aids can be anchored directly to the skull via an operation that inserts a small implant into the skull, usually behind the ear with a small attachment point. The rest of the equipment, which is also small, can then be attached fairly unobtrusively and the transmission is better. This does require some surgery and the implant is always there. Swings and roundabouts.

Many hearing difficulties do involve a degree of problem with aspects of the inner ear/cochlea (sensory- neural hearing loss.) If the cochlea is not seriously degraded or ineffective then regular air conduction or bone conduction aids will boost the signal to the cochlea and may improve hearing quite usefully.

If the cochlea itself is a major problem then a cochlear implant may be suggested but this is a much more significant medical intervention which then requires much habilitation or rehabilitation over several months in order for the person to make best use of the new “hearing” signals that the cochlear implant provides.

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Rasputin » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:03 am

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:11 pm
I have experienced a pair of headphones that don't use the ears but rather the bones near your temples. They tend to be Bluetooth, and you use them to listen to music from an iPod or an iPhone. The advantage is you can not only listen to the background music (clearly), but you can also at the same time listen to everything going on around you through your ears if you are not deaf.
I didn't know these existed. Do you remember how the volume compared to normal headphones (i.e. do you have it set about the same, or lower / higher?) They might be good for flights. I find that if you plug into the entertainment system with the supplied headphones, you are still strainining to hear even with the volume on max, and I don't like to have it up that high anyway. I have some isolating earphones that are so effective you can have the volume on 1... the trouble is that the passenger announcements have their own volume level that you can't change - often 9 or 10 - so periodically you get some idiotic message about turbulence or duty free that is at a deafening level. I wonder whether these things would have the same problem - if not I would certainly invest in a pair.

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Rasputin » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:04 am

Strainining, by the way, is like straining only more so.

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:32 am

Rasputin wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:03 am
Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:11 pm
I have experienced a pair of headphones that don't use the ears but rather the bones near your temples. They tend to be Bluetooth, and you use them to listen to music from an iPod or an iPhone. The advantage is you can not only listen to the background music (clearly), but you can also at the same time listen to everything going on around you through your ears if you are not deaf.
I didn't know these existed. Do you remember how the volume compared to normal headphones (i.e. do you have it set about the same, or lower / higher?) They might be good for flights. I find that if you plug into the entertainment system with the supplied headphones, you are still strainining to hear even with the volume on max, and I don't like to have it up that high anyway. I have some isolating earphones that are so effective you can have the volume on 1... the trouble is that the passenger announcements have their own volume level that you can't change - often 9 or 10 - so periodically you get some idiotic message about turbulence or duty free that is at a deafening level. I wonder whether these things would have the same problem - if not I would certainly invest in a pair.
The volume was comparatively low, but I didn't play with any settings - I just had a quick listen out of curiosity. My friend bought them on the web from America. It was a very pleasant experience having your head suffused with background music. For long flights don't people recommend noise-cancelling headphones?
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Rasputin
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Rasputin » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:24 pm

Yeah, but then you have to lug a great big set of cans around and worry about charging them - plus I like the lo-tech approach of the isolating earbuds. If you get a good seal they work really well - it's just this volume thing. Maybe I will get an extension cord with a volume control, turn that right down, then turn the system volume right up. That ought to solve it.

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by bacsidoan » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:43 pm

amezcua wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:52 pm
Apologies for the intended joke in the title . I have just ordered two Bone Conductor headsets from China for myself and my wife . We both had a hearing test yesterday and we both have almost no hearing in our left ears . Most of these type of aids are made in China .
So Bone Conductors will be tested by us . We both have two hearing aids already which fall short of what we need . Yesterday I realised that silence is such a precious thing and I would hate to lose it . Almost more than sound .
The Bone Conductors bypass the tiny three bones that connect between the ear drum and the twirly cochlea . If medical people called them Twirly Cochleas we would know what they were talking about from the get go .
I checked with the technician audiologist and he pointed to the left side of the hearing graph. The first point is at 200 herz which is the lowest open string on a guitar . I wonder how bass players manage .
It would be interesting to see if your discontent for the main stream equal temperament employed in the clasical guitar will be exacerbated or alleviated with these devices. I mean no derision; the comment is made strictly out of curiosity.

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:24 pm

Equal temperament will not become suddenly wonderful for me as even as my hearing has declined I still recoil at the sound of Steinway pianos playing classical music. Those pianos are tuned just before a performance most times. I find another aspect of listening in this situation makes rhythm even more important. That involves also stresses and what brings out the meaning in music as much as the exact frequencies . I am editing here . I remember now what was noticeable as my hearing got worse .The tone was lacking and the other musical aspects like rhythm ,timing and stresses became more noticed and more important . Intonation did not change . Out of tune was still out of tune . Beethoven probably noticed that as well . If you haven`t already seen it , look for the medical report on Beethoven`s hearing written by a French doctor. He wrote that Beethoven had very large ears .
" Discontent with the main stream equal temperament " . I don`t feel obliged to fit into a system like that . If I explain why I want something different it`s not especially to nudge anyone else in that direction . Anyway 4 dislikes for me ,Equal temperament , Tatoos, Lycra and Deafness . And cyclists who never look round . Would tatoos on a classical guitarist suddenly affect his reputation as a guitarist ? You don`t want to walk out on stage in a lycra outfit , that`s certain .
I`m glad I started this topic because it ....may... help Lorette to find a better way to listen . The technical mprovements in bone conductors have arrived in the last six years if I have understood the publicity correctly . Think of it as similar to spectacles when your eyes can`t focus properly . The idea of worrying about whether the bone conductor is more visible than a tiny in-ear aid would be a small thing if you had the nerve to ride around on a bike wearing stripey lycra .Strange how that idea survives when so many people cover themselves in tatoos . But this is about hearing clearly .
Check out the difference s between outer ,middle and inner ear . If your cochleas are intact you have a good chance of hearing well . The batteries last 12 hours and are rechargeable in 2 hours .That`s not so bad . Lithium batteries .As long as they don`t blow your head off .
Last edited by amezcua on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by simonm » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:32 am

amezcua wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:24 pm


The idea of worrying about whether the bone conductor is more visible than a tiny in-ear aid would be a small thing if you had the nerve to ride around on a bike wearing stripey lycra .Strange how that idea survives when so many people cover themselves in tatoos .
...
Given the prevalence of fashionable clip on the ear bluetooth headsets for phones I cannot understand why people want tiny hearing aids. A new neighbor has ultra discrete tiny transparent ones that almost completely hidden by his spectacles (but not integrated into them).

It seems to me that the drive towards the tiny hearing aids is essentially the same kind of marketing as the diamond marketing. The hearing aid market and the diamond markets share the facts that they are almost monopolies (extremely few sellers) with products that are in essence commonplace.

As for cyclists, in Germany the ones in black lycra with are the ones I fear will run me down. Black lycra and expensive bikes (as in 5k upwards) implies automatic right of way under all circumstances. :-)

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