Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
simonm
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by simonm » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:51 am

@ Pat

I just skimmed the article as I am marginally familiar with this topic. Back in the middle 90's a friend had a cochleae implant. The lady's hearing had degenerated for genetic reasons. Being aware of this she had learned sign language and her daughters were also learning it as it was likely that both would also loose their hearing. I don't know whether the children continued with sign after their mother got the implant. Clearly a different situation as these are all people who could hear at one point.

One of the things I read at the time was Oliver Sachs' "Seeing Voices" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Voices) which looks at the coexistence of deaf and hearing people in a "bi-lingual" community in the US. One little anecdote illustrated the "bilingualism" there: one hearing interviewee was asked about another resident there. It took him sometime to recall whether the person in question was deaf or not. The point being that the communication via sign was so fluent that people did not really pay attention to the language they were speaking.

The trend towards implants, totally understandable for people who loose hearing, is in essence a nail in the coffin of yet another set of languages, a loss of another way of expressing oneself.

One minor thing that I learned back then was to trim my moustache - for anyone who reads lips (like my friend) it is important to remember to make sure that you lips are clearly visible.

Bone head-set to moustache trimming … Quite a diversion. :-)

amezcua
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:01 am

I used to work for an agency where you were sent to different factories for short spells. There was a young lady there who was deaf and was a good lip reader. One day I told her a joke which made her laugh. The odd thing was we were were at opposite ends of the noisy room .I only moved my lips for that . It was a fascinating thing to do . When I was in Mold in Wales I was amused to see the board on a building for the Welsh Dyslexic Association . There was a group of deaf people outside and I made the chopping hand sign and wiped my brow to say how hard I was working. They had a good laugh at that .

Pat Dodson
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Pat Dodson » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:11 am

@Simon, @amezcua

As an educational psychologist back in the late 80s I regularly visited a school for deaf children and remember the care I had to take with my moustache and beard.

For several months I attended classes on a variant of British Sign Language called Signed English which the school used. It uses BSL signs but with English grammar and word order and is employed to help with literacy and with communication with the hearing and those using aural methods. Sort of a compromise but rather frowned upon by some BSL users for the reasons Simon mentioned.

Around that time my daughter, though having good hearing, had a severe speech and language disorder and did not speak until she was 3. She was then almost unintelligible for a year and her word order was interestingly much closer to BSL than English. Signing was a real boon to her and us at home but was gradually dropped as her speech and spoken language improved.

Sadly, as I moved elsewhere in my career and only occasionally encountered those who sign, I slowly lost my signing skills, something I regret whenever I do meet someone who signs. Still keep my moustache trimmed though. :)

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:34 pm

Signing, it is difficult to realise, is a full-blown language with all the grammar and vocab.

I can learn a language, but it takes me 15 years. People say I'm talented, but they refuse to acknowledge that I put in literally 10,000 hours' work (2 hours per day over 15 years). Talented people do it in far less time.
Our employer employed any deaf person who wanted to work with us, and we had classes in how to communicate with them, but at the time I was learning something else and I realised that learning to sign would literally take me 10,000 hours. I had to give it up.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

dory
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by dory » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:59 pm

My sister in law "speaks" ASL fluently. Unfortunately, from my understanding, she can only communicate with people from the US and Canada. People in the UK "speak" an entirely different language from what I understand although I may be wrong. I think sign languages are even more fragmented than spoken languages.

I have always wanted to learn ASL. However, having learned several languages in my life I am aware of how much time it takes to learn another language. I have learned several languages by spending months in an immersion situation. I seem to be a bit more talented than some because I can end up fluent after 9 months to a year in an immersion situation ( with languages closely related to English.) Some people take two years or more. Big deal. It is a lot of work for all of us. I am continually shocked by those people who take 2 or 4 week immersion programs and expect they will come out with a useful level of fluency. Then there is the issue of maintaining your level of fluency when you are not speaking on a daily basis. As a child I was apparently a true bilingual in Norwegian and English. (Of all world languages the Scandinavian languages may be the easiest for English speakers.) I currently speak almost zero Norwegian. Perhaps building on some distant memories of Norwegisn (which is mutually comprehensible with Danish) I became a fluent Danish speaker as a ternaget, and minored in Scandinavian Studies in college. How much Danish donI have left! Very little. I still sprak French amd Spanish but I used to sometimes be mistaken for a native speaker of French. Nobody who had sny real knowledge of French would think that now. I have nobody to converse with.
Dory

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:13 pm

Yep, BSL and ASL are totally different. Pretty stupid in hindsight.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

amezcua
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:45 pm

In the Charles Dickens book American Notes he visited the Boston area in 1842 and saw how the Perkins Institute looked after young children who were both Blind and Deaf . The BUK application gives you a free chance to read the book . It`s in the first few chapters . A remarkable , sobering account of humans adapting to life as they find it .

amezcua
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:45 am

My hearing aids were replaced with a more modern version a few weeks ago. The volume on both had been reset and I had to go back to get them adjusted. The lady audiologist refused to cooperate and said they are the correct settings. Not even one notch down and the lowest is still too loud. Still seeking an alternative because understanding speech is impossible with the left side aid, I mentioned Bone Conductors. All she knew about was the implants.No knowledge or advice on anything ese . That amazed me coming from a person doing it for a living . I told her that cycle shops were advertising them . It was pretty obvious she was not interested. Just reading from the script .

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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:53 am

"Surely the reason is that most people prefer not to advertise their decrepitude. "

Rasputin: careful, or one day you may find yourself laid out by a decrepit hearing aid wearer.
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Rasputin
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Rasputin » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:15 am

stroke cat lady :D My own fear of ageing speaking, no doubt.

PeteJ
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by PeteJ » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:05 pm

amezcua wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:52 pm
I checked with the technician audiologist and he pointed to the left side of the hearing graph. The first point is at 200 herz which is the lowest open string on a guitar . I wonder how bass players manage .
Not quite. 82Hz is the lowest string, and half that for a bass gtr.

amezcua
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:50 pm

Yes quite right for the guitar but the screen graph only started at 200 Hz . So near enough for an audiologist . In an audiologists graph the screen shows my right ear on the left and my left ear on the right . It`s all set up so the audiologist looking at me won`t get confused. I`m already confused .

amezcua
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:25 pm

The internet is gradually drawing me a picture of what is possible these days. One thing I never knew was if your Cochlea is not working they can bypass it and connect digital connectors to send messages direct to the brain .The less invasive operation would be to transmit signals through the skull to work the cochlea by implanting something just under the skin.
I used to think if the cochlea was out of action it was Game Over .Not so .Hope is still there on the horizon .
An article by a Piano Tuner who was going deaf describes how he rigged up a microphone inside his piano and used some kind of Equaliser to get his hearing back to when he was a teenager . It worked far better than any hearing aid he was sold .

amezcua
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by amezcua » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:04 pm

Delving ino the mysteries of the Cochlea last week I found a rather beautiful fact .
The question was ;What is the smallest movement in the cochlea hairs for the quietest possible sound ?
The answer was ; The smallest movement ( 0.1441 nanometres ) is equal to the diameter of one molecule of Gold.

Pat Dodson
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Re: Bone Conductors if you are going deaf. ---DEAF dear!

Post by Pat Dodson » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:20 am

amezcua wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:04 pm
Delving ino the mysteries of the Cochlea last week I found a rather beautiful fact .
The question was ;What is the smallest movement in the cochlea hairs for the quietest possible sound ?
The answer was ; The smallest movement ( 0.1441 nanometres ) is equal to the diameter of one molecule of Gold.
Yes, that is amazing.

Here’s an enjoyable little article that mentions a similarly small movement (this time of the eardrum.) But the article is fascinating too for what it says about measurement error and the need for caution in any study where humans are involved!

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/~smgxprj/public/as ... e_v1_8.pdf

I would just add that there are animals that can hear sounds far quieter than humans can and that theoretically sounds exist that are quieter than any animal can detect. When last I looked though the most sensitive microphones were still less sensitive than human hearing. However work at Microsoft’s anechoic chamber in Washington might, among other things, lead to more sensitive detectors.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/2017052 ... e-on-earth

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