Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:19 pm

MessyTendon wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:37 pm
Actually I have the Paul Galbraith cd. I got it at my thrift store for 50 cents...I'm not complaining.

But I still think Bach on guitar is sort of like what rock stars do to the blues scale...it's so overdone.
Messr Messy, I'm so glad that you're still alive! Welcome back! You're completely wrong about Bach and need to resume your meds.
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ddray
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by ddray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:28 am

It's hard not to love this though:

Youtube

celestemcc
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by celestemcc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:58 pm

Bach pretty much goes with any instrument (like it or not)!
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Steve Kutzer
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by Steve Kutzer » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:13 pm

The chaconne is lovely on the guitar, but on the violin it is magnificent.
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ddray
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by ddray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:16 pm

celestemcc wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:58 pm
Bach pretty much goes with any instrument (like it or not)!
Ultimately I think you're right. There's a guy on YT who's done fugues from the Art of Fugue allegedly using partially-filled beer bottles. And ya know, it doesn't sound half bad. In music, there's Bach, and there's everybody else. Like it or not. ;)

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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by celestemcc » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:48 pm

Someone on another music-related group I'm on thinks Bach cello suites are horrible on guitar... but it turns out the person is a cellist and who prefers none but historically correct instruments, and considered the guitar to sound too high-pitched and twangy...?? I suggested she hadn't heard a good guitar. Or that she just was opinionated and hadn't actually listened...
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ddray
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by ddray » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:06 pm

Oh, don't get me started on "historically informed performance"... :lol: :-x

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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by MessyTendon » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:02 am

I think the Cello player is right...Gut strings on a finely carved cello make Bach sound good. I totally agree with that woman...Guitar does sound high pitched and twangy when trying to play Bach cello music. A guitar can play Cello music, but it still has a wimpy guitar sound...now a Cello with a bow...that's a helluva lot more spruce :)

To creatively express Bach is what makes Bach great. Sadly I think the guitar takes Bach, and make sit sound like a mechanical player piano.

I'm not saying Bach is bad on guitar, just that I don't care for it or regard it as that great. If I could actually play Bach and make a career out of it, I'm sure my perspective would be different.

Sometimes a critic is just a critic. I will say this, I think Raphella Smits on her old slightly modified french guitar, is the best Bach player ever on guitar.

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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by JohnH » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:28 am

David Norton wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:47 pm
MessyTendon wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:08 am

I just feel like Bach music needs to have weight to it. The dainty shrill pitch of those god awful Pro Arte strings, is no match for what Bach should sound like...
I suggest a dose of Bach as recorded by Paul Galbraith (8 string), Narciso Yepes (10 string), or Goran Sollscher (11 string). One of Yepes' main reasons for adopting the 10-string was that he felt he was "only playing half of what Bach wrote". Or words to that effect.
I really think the 6 string guitar has an insufficient bass range for Bach, particularly for BWV 995 (Suite in G Minor). I have a guitar arrangement in A minor. A 7-string guitar could have the deepest string tuned to A1 instead of B1. My singing voice goes down to Bb1 so I have a craving for deep bass.

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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by ddray » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:29 am

MessyTendon wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:02 am
I think the Cello player is right...Gut strings on a finely carved cello make Bach sound good.
But the thing is it sounded even better when Pierre Fournier played the suites on a modern instrument. But I would agree to an extent. Given the choice between hearing the cello and violin works on the original instruments vs the guitar, I'll take the original instruments every time. One of the things that makes these suites and sonatas so monumental is a "mind over matter" sort of thing: creating these wonderful things with their implied harmonies and fugal structures for 4 strings stretched over a wooden box. (Well, except the 6th cello suite, but you see what I'm saying). That never ceases to amaze me.
(Edit) BWV 995-1000 though sound tremendously better and more appropriate on guitar than the Lautenwerk or the lute. I consider those "native" guitar repertoire really. Even though they're not. :D

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by Andrew Fryer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:40 pm

Just because a lot of people do something badly, doesn't mean those who do it well shouldn't be appreciated.
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celestemcc
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by celestemcc » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:10 am

I actually enjoy the cello suites on cello, perhaps better even than on guitar. I don't consider guitar the top interpretive instrument for them and in fact, as I study the 1st suite, I listen almost exclusively to cello versions of the various movements, not guitarists. But that said, Bach has a universality; and since I do adore the timbre of the guitar (why else do we play it? :) ) I enjoy playing the suite on the guitar. I always strive for a warm tone. I admit that some may never love it, and that's fine too.
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geoff-bristol
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by geoff-bristol » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:51 am

I agree - coming from playing violin - from my limited exposure to bach on guitar there is something lacking ? Not sure what.
It might be that the pieces I really like for violin - like the simple minuets etc - don't work well on guitar ?
Maybe I should listen to more Bach on guitar - see if I change my mind.

Not over fond of the suites - to me they just seem awkward musically ( even when played by the very best players )

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Mike Steede
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by Mike Steede » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:44 am

I particularly like Bach on guitar when it's played with a capo at the 2nd or 3rd fret. And I don't care for it much on the 8-string jobbies or the Brahms guitar. I should buy a lute...
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ddray
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Re: Can I be the Grinch and say Bach and guitar don't mix...

Post by ddray » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:02 am

Mike Steede wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:44 am
I particularly like Bach on guitar when it's played with a capo at the 2nd or 3rd fret. And I don't care for it much on the 8-string jobbies or the Brahms guitar. I should buy a lute...
Well, to be honest I can't find much wrong with this, for example:

https://youtu.be/6emElQDVqF4

I try to take each performance on its own. Some work for me, some don't. I will say though that I have yet to hear a convincing performance of the Chaconne on guitar. I've heard some good playing from people performing it, but for me it just doesn't work on guitar. Brahms' piano version for the left hand is more convincing, even.

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