Neologisms you hate

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
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Mark Featherstone
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Mark Featherstone » Sat May 09, 2015 1:47 am

dory wrote:I do want to make it clear to non-native speakers of English that at least for me, grammatical errors made by people whose first language is other than English are not an irritant at all.

I am 99.9% with you, but I draw the line at "more better" and its only slightly less grating brothers and sisters like "more darker, more bigger".

Here in Singapore, we must have a linguist's paradise in which several Chinese languages (Mandarin, Cantonese,Hokkien, Hakka...), Malay, Tamil and English have been stewing together for centuries. The upside is that many native Singaporeans have a remarkable ability to communicate in very different languages. The downside is that many of those people speak no language well. As a result, year after year I encounter bright undergraduates who have studied and socialized in English all their lives and yet use phrases like "more better". (On the other hand, I just now realize that I have never heard one of these students use "incentivize", for which they must be congratulated!)

Over a semester-long course, I always manage to sneak in 10 minutes on English usage. This is a dangerous endeavour as I realize that I could easily come across as a snob at best, and a colonialist at worst. But I try to deliver it with good humour, and I must say that the students are always very gracious. We all have a good laugh, and some even ask me for copies of my little list of common errors in English usage. I think it helps that I begin my little spiel with an acknowledgement that my grasp of Asian languages ranges from non-existent to barely existent. I hope I also note that I have been studying/using French for years and continue to make very basic errors. My plans for retirement, which now seems dangerously close, include improving (a) my classical guitar playing, and (b) my French.
Last edited by Mark Featherstone on Sat May 09, 2015 2:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
Francisco Navarro Concert Classical, cedar top, 630 mm scale, 50 mm nut

"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse."
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Mark Featherstone
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Mark Featherstone » Sat May 09, 2015 2:16 am

Denian Arcoleo wrote:Funny thing is that if you hear someone speaking English with no grammatical errors at all (in contrast to native English speakers) you know they're probably Swedish :lol:

Or Dutch.
Francisco Navarro Concert Classical, cedar top, 630 mm scale, 50 mm nut

"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse."
Bruce Cockburn

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Andrew Fryer » Sat May 09, 2015 6:56 am

Obviously one tolerates mistakes in someone's second or third language, but there are some things I don't like - some (it tends to happen most with the Dutch) lard their English with far too much slang and idiom, and it's usually wrong and stilted and old-fashioned. Also there are those who attempt a PhD thesis where a quick comment would do. If they insist on inflicting that on us, then they should at least use good grammar. Better expressed, they should keep their comments as simple as their grammar.
Last edited by Andrew Fryer on Sat May 09, 2015 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

simonm
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby simonm » Sat May 09, 2015 11:09 am

Andrew Fryer wrote:… lard their English with far too much slang and idiom, and it's usually wrong and stilted and old-fashioned...


I suppose if the fog isn't as thick as a pea soup in London today then it is mostly likely raining cats and dogs …

Frederic
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Frederic » Tue May 12, 2015 2:47 am

Impact is often used as a noun, and can be defined as the effect or impression of one thing on another. However it is commonly used by politicians and corporate spokesmen who can be quoted as saying, "this has impacted our results, and has impacted our ability to function, (and has impacted our ability to speak proper English?). I am afraid that it is actually correct to use impact as a verb, despite its pretentious quality.

But, its use as a transitive verb, such as "this has the possibility of impacting our health, or impacting our citizens, (or impacting the spokesman's brains), is disfavored by academics and other smart people who strive to clean-up our language, but often fail. The better choice of word is 'effects', or 'consequences'. As in, " illegal waste disposal will cause it to face the legal consequences of damaging community health", or 'the practice of bad government will have negative effects on our citizens".

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Mark Featherstone
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Mark Featherstone » Tue May 12, 2015 7:48 am

Frederic wrote:I am afraid that it is actually correct to use impact as a verb, despite its pretentious quality.

Please excuse the black humour, but I gotta mention the best use I've heard of impact, in this case transformed to an adjective. After a fighter jet crashed into an apartment complex in Virginia in 2012, the governor was quoted as saying, "We are taking all possible steps at the state level to provide immediate resources and assistance to those impacted by the crash." (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-17640618)

This quote is equaled only by that of the Mayor of Christchurch, NZ who, following the earthquake of Dec 2011, said that the event, "...had left people shaken". (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-16312041)

Sticking with earthquakes, the all time winner: A seismologist, having not yet detected a tsunami in the hours immediately following an earthquake, pronounced, "...we are still monitoring, as tsunamis come in waves." (http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL3E8FB7ZX20120411)
Francisco Navarro Concert Classical, cedar top, 630 mm scale, 50 mm nut

"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse."
Bruce Cockburn

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Andrew Fryer » Tue May 12, 2015 8:11 am

"to Impact on" is OK (Latin verbs with prefixes tend to be intrasitive or they use prepositions such as on). But Chambers says impact can also be a transitive verb. I'm not going to summarise them.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

Frederic
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Frederic » Tue May 12, 2015 11:18 pm

Splendid thread. Our members have impacted my thinking to a great extent, and as a consequence, I will ponder the effect.

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Evocacion
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Evocacion » Wed May 13, 2015 6:37 pm

When I lived in West London I occasionally saw a driving school car proudly labelled: The Impact School of Motoring.

Always made me smile.

(Just checked on Google - they are still around!).

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Denian Arcoleo » Fri May 15, 2015 1:19 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:"to Impact on" is OK ...


Surely the grammatically correct form would be ''to impact upon''? No?

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Andrew Fryer » Fri May 15, 2015 2:22 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
Andrew Fryer wrote:"to Impact on" is OK ...


Surely the grammatically correct form would be ''to impact upon''? No?

I wondered about it. I can't remember if I decided mine was a good enough example or whether I posted before looking it up.

"it impacts on" scores 354,000 Google hits.
"it impacts upon" scores 34,600 Google hits. Similar proportion for "it impacted "
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Denian Arcoleo » Sat May 16, 2015 2:55 pm

''I'm calling you out on that''...makes me cringe, especially when Brits say it.

RoryJohn
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby RoryJohn » Sat May 16, 2015 5:13 pm

simonm wrote:
Andrew Fryer wrote:… lard their English with far too much slang and idiom, and it's usually wrong and stilted and old-fashioned...


I suppose if the fog isn't as thick as a pea soup in London today then it is mostly likely raining cats and dogs …


dis genuwinely made me lol :lol:
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Mark_Steed
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Mark_Steed » Tue May 19, 2015 1:02 pm

Mark Featherstone wrote:
dory wrote:I do want to make it clear .................. This is a dangerous endeavour as I realize that I could easily come across as a snob at best, and a colonialist at worst. .


You seem to be happy to tar a lot of fine upstanding people with one brush. To use your own words "This is a dangerous endeavour" as you apparently hold a position of some influence on the thinking of students in Singapore. Shame on you Sir

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Mark Featherstone
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Re: Neologisms you hate

Postby Mark Featherstone » Tue May 19, 2015 4:19 pm

Mark_Steed wrote:
Mark Featherstone wrote:
dory wrote:I do want to make it clear .................. This is a dangerous endeavour as I realize that I could easily come across as a snob at best, and a colonialist at worst. .


You seem to be happy to tar a lot of fine upstanding people with one brush. To use your own words "This is a dangerous endeavour" as you apparently hold a position of some influence on the thinking of students in Singapore. Shame on you Sir


Mark_Steed, I can only say that you are a more better man than me.

Mark
Francisco Navarro Concert Classical, cedar top, 630 mm scale, 50 mm nut

"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse."
Bruce Cockburn


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