Pro Arte question.

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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petermc61
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by petermc61 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:04 am

I struggle to understand your dilemma. Clearly you don’t like the feel of the strings but it’s not the tension. The less than 0.5% change you mention would be imperceptible. It is far more likely to relate to stiffness, flexibility, surface feel or something of that nature.

Cantiga are more flexible/less stiff than most strings. As mentioned previously, recommend you try the normal tension.

es335
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by es335 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:55 am

The total tension is just a rough guideline to estimate the feel of strings and the load for the top. Tension distribution is another and probably better one. Hannabach are know for their comparatively high total tension. So for instance HB 815 Low is close to identical to EJ46 in total tension but feels much softer. This is because the tension distribution is more even than any other brand.

On the other side Savarez‘ top e string stands out in tension even more than others which might dominate the tension perception of the complete set!?

djqsrv
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by djqsrv » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:34 pm

petermc61 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:04 am
I struggle to understand your dilemma. Clearly you don’t like the feel of the strings but it’s not the tension. The less than 0.5% change you mention would be imperceptible. It is far more likely to relate to stiffness, flexibility, surface feel or something of that nature.

Cantiga are more flexible/less stiff than most strings. As mentioned previously, recommend you try the normal tension.
No dilemma. Just trying to get a really good understanding of all of these last sets I bought before I make my next order.
I guess my long winded point in that last post was the hard cantiga play stiffer then the numbers suggest to me. Not as much the basses but the trebles. Just wanted to see if others felt the same or is it just me.
Regular cantiga is on the list for next batch. Along with hanibach. I have never played any of their sets. They seem highly recommended.
Anyway thanks everyone for your observations.
Daniel
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

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ameriken
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by ameriken » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:48 pm

djqsrv wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:34 pm

No dilemma. Just trying to get a really good understanding of all of these last sets I bought before I make my next order.
I guess my long winded point in that last post was the hard cantiga play stiffer then the numbers suggest to me. Not as much the basses but the trebles. Just wanted to see if others felt the same or is it just me.
Regular cantiga is on the list for next batch. Along with hanibach. I have never played any of their sets. They seem highly recommended.
Anyway thanks everyone for your observations.
Daniel
I'm curious what you think of the sound of the cantigas as compared to the D'addarios? What kind of guitar and top are you playing them on? They're on my list to try but I'm probably going with NT.
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souldier
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by souldier » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:03 pm

I've had some Cantiga NT basses on my guitar for almost 2 months now after not using them for quite some time. Surprisingly I didn't care much for them. Felt they didn't bring anything special to the table and are thus overpriced. To my ears and on my guitar they sound neutral and clean without being particularly loud or deep. I prefer the sound and feel of Savarez Corums which I think have more depth, growl and boldness. Years ago I vaguely remembering coming to the same conclusion. YMMV
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djqsrv
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by djqsrv » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm

ameriken wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:48 pm

I'm curious what you think of the sound of the cantigas as compared to the D'addarios? What kind of guitar and top are you playing them on? They're on my list to try but I'm probably going with NT.
Wile waiting on the construction of my new guitar I am still using a Córdoba c5 cedar top. Not the most exciting instrument but outstanding sounding for its price range.
The cantiga basses are louder and a bit crisper then the D’addarios. Comparing hard to hard the cantigas are stiffer and you can dig in a bit more before they start sounding bad. So the volume potential is higher. I see why so many people have recommended pairing them with Dogal Diamente trebles. They are a very good sonic match. A bit brighter but not quite as bright and crisp as full on fluorocarbon. That’s how I would describe the cantigas. A step crisper and brighter then Pro Arte basses but well below something like dynacore or ht basses.
I did not like the new crystal trebles. There was a plinky sound to them that was just not pleasing to me. Also they were to stiff in the hard tension for my liking.
I put hard Pro Arte back on today and it was like coming home. The tension is just perfect for my play style. Stiff enough to be able to dig in when I want and yet sweet/warm sounding to a light touch. I should just stay with them but every so often I get this feeling that I’m missing out on something better and I go through this process of trying different sets.
I can’t see myself trying crystal trebles ever again but the cantiga basses are nice. Normal tension cantiga with hard Diamante trebles are at the top of the list for my next order.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

bauersachs82
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by bauersachs82 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:58 pm

petermc61 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:04 am
I struggle to understand your dilemma. Clearly you don’t like the feel of the strings but it’s not the tension. The less than 0.5% change you mention would be imperceptible. It is far more likely to relate to stiffness, flexibility, surface feel or something of that nature.

Cantiga are more flexible/less stiff than most strings. As mentioned previously, recommend you try the normal tension.
I have used the Corum. Are the trebles the same in the Cantiga as the Corum?

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petermc61
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by petermc61 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:31 pm

djqsrv wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:34 pm
petermc61 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:04 am
I struggle to understand your dilemma. Clearly you don’t like the feel of the strings but it’s not the tension. The less than 0.5% change you mention would be imperceptible. It is far more likely to relate to stiffness, flexibility, surface feel or something of that nature.

Cantiga are more flexible/less stiff than most strings. As mentioned previously, recommend you try the normal tension.
No dilemma. Just trying to get a really good understanding of all of these last sets I bought before I make my next order.
I guess my long winded point in that last post was the hard cantiga play stiffer then the numbers suggest to me. Not as much the basses but the trebles. Just wanted to see if others felt the same or is it just me.
Regular cantiga is on the list for next batch. Along with hanibach. I have never played any of their sets. They seem highly recommended.
Anyway thanks everyone for your observations.
Daniel
Daniel

I suspect there is a bit of miscommunication on this thread, partly because you seem to misunderstand Savarez branding. ‘Cantiga’ is a model of bass string. It had nothing to do with trebles at all. You can match it with multiple treble sets (eg Alliance, New Cristal) but to talk of the sound of a compete Cantiga set or Cantiga trebles is not correct.

For the record, I don’t like any of the treble sets made by Savarez, with the exception of their Alliance G sting on some guitars. The Cantiga normal sound best when paired with a variety of treble strings from other manufacturers (eg Mari 100p, Augustine Imperial, Dogal Diamanté Strong).

Peter

djqsrv
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by djqsrv » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:55 pm

Hey Peter
Looking back at my posts I did start dropping new crystal every time I typed catinga. The set I bought was catinga new crystal. I should have been more clear. Both the catinga basses and the new crystal both played stiffer to me then the listed tension.
But with these last few strings I have tried, I think I’m right there with you on savarez trebles. I have used the rectified nylon, new crystal and alliance and really have not liked any of them. The alliance was ok when I was playing without nails. As soon as I got a little nail on the string they were to bright for me.
Corum and ht basses both were ok to me but nothing special. I like the cantiga basses. I am looking forward to trying the regular tension. Haven’t tried the Mari 100p trebles. Will have to add those to my next order.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

djqsrv
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by djqsrv » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:01 pm

bauersachs82 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:58 pm
petermc61 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:04 am
I struggle to understand your dilemma. Clearly you don’t like the feel of the strings but it’s not the tension. The less than 0.5% change you mention would be imperceptible. It is far more likely to relate to stiffness, flexibility, surface feel or something of that nature.

Cantiga are more flexible/less stiff than most strings. As mentioned previously, recommend you try the normal tension.
I have used the Corum. Are the trebles the same in the Cantiga as the Corum?
No. As Peter pointed out you can get either of those basses with different trebles. Or just buy bass sets to match with other trebles.
“I've been imitated so well I've heard people copy my mistakes.“ - Jimi Hendrix

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petermc61
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by petermc61 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:46 pm

djqsrv wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:55 pm
Haven’t tried the Mari 100p trebles. Will have to add those to my next order.
They are a bit harder to source. Try Ostie Music Supplies (nice guy, good service). Try both the regular and light (I think called 100pl from memory). They are fairly inexpensive so get a couple of sets of each.

Don’t get the Mari basses or the complete sets. The basses must be about the stiffest bass string ever made - you’d hate them!

Rognvald
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by Rognvald » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:06 pm

The best sounding strings are the ones that match and enhance a particular guitar. When not traveling, I play three different concert cedar guitars in rotation during the week. This has given me, recently, the ability to know the unique personalities of each guitar and what strings will enhance its sound and increase the tonal palette possible for that instrument. For me, the object has always been an easily playable guitar that can express both the complete dynamic and tonal range while providing good projection. However, even after discovering the best strings for each guitar, I love that they each have their own unique voice. This, for me, is the beauty of a handmade instrument and the magic of a well-made classical guitar. Playing again . . .Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Pro Arte question.

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:13 am

djqsrv wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:21 am
Strings by mail lists Pro Arte hard at a total of 89.94 lbs. it lists cantiga new crystal hard at 90.5 lbs. I would not think that small a difference would be so noticeable. Especially considering that most regular tension strings are down around a total of 85 lbs.
That half pound is just a bit to much for me. I like the sound and like most other hard tension strings I have used I like the ability to really dig in when I want to really get some volume and umph but the cantiga hard are just a little to stiff to me.
Anyone else find these play stiffer then the listed tensions?
I will be cutting them off tomorrow and I think I’m going to put some ej46’s on there to get my baseline back before trying another new set.
Savages 520R are around 89 pounds. Ramirez med tension with carbon G is just over 87 lbs. Strings by Mail is going to test all of their CG strings on 650mm scale and have that info some time this year. As you can't trust the manufacturers to agree on a definition of med, hard, med/hard, low, etc. You really have to have the tension data.

Hannabachs low, is most companies medium. Also the new crystal may be a little stiffer, but not necessarily be higher tension. Different materials feel different.

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