Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
Emil Krasich
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Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby Emil Krasich » Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:24 pm

Hi all,

I'm looking for a brighter, highest tension possible 3rd string carbon. I'd be using this as a 4th string on a 13 stringer and want to find something other than a wound string that will sound good being tuned a third lower to E. Scale length is 640mm. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

souldier
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby souldier » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:44 pm

Savarez Alliance HT - G (13.47 pounds). If want something even higher, check D'addario Carbons EJ46FF - G (15.02 pounds). In my experience the D'addarios feel stiffer but they have a sweeter tone than alliance, but I don't know if it will really matter if you're using it as a 4th string tuned down. The disadvantage with D'addario is you have to buy the entire treble set.
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rojarosguitar
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby rojarosguitar » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:50 pm

Is there any reason why you want to use a prefabricated g-string? The Seaguar Premier FC-Leader Line series is available in different strengths and it gives the most fantastic fc guitar strings. E.g. the 0.91 (0.036") leader yields according to Arto's string calculators 7.474kg = 16,477 pounds (approx. because the exact density is not known) when tuned to g. Tuned to E it would yield 5.285 kg= 11,65 pounds. According to my experience this g-string is better than any packaged fr-string of any brand.

And they also have the 1.05mm (0.041") yielding 9,95kg = 21,94 pounds when tuned to g. Tuned to E it would yield 7.036 kg = 15,51 pounds.

All the calculations being done at 640mm string length.

Even the less ecpensive Seaguar fc leader lines have proven to give very good carbon strings with good intonation (often better than the usual brands). Premier series gives impeccable intonation.
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ben etow
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby ben etow » Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:42 pm

Probably the XHT supersona from Dr. Junger. Apart from its very high tension, it is stiff. Very useful for short scale (and low action) guitars.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby rojarosguitar » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:40 pm

I'm not sure if stiffness (I understand it to be the resistance against sidewards deformation) is necessarily an asset for short scale. In my experience stiff strings are unpleasant to play and display, especially with shorter scale, an increased anharmonicity of the overtone spectrum resulting also in (at least perceived) intonation problems; also stiff strings, when thick relatively to length, can quickly sound tubby. I think for lower frequencies you would wish as high density as possible, so that you can achieve the tension you desire with as thin calibre as possible.
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kdwiklund
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby kdwiklund » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:41 pm

I have a 640 and use a carbon on my 3rd - either Hannabach Goldin which is MHT or Knobloch MHT. Both have very good sonority.
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Emil Krasich
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby Emil Krasich » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:43 pm

I experimented with various Savarez early instrument carbon strings. a .97mm one is working perfectly.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby rojarosguitar » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:30 pm

Very good ... now, if you like Savarez, you will like Seaguar Premier of corresponding strength even more...
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bacsidoan
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby bacsidoan » Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:38 pm

rojarosguitar wrote:Very good ... now, if you like Savarez, you will like Seaguar Premier of corresponding strength even more...


+1

ben etow
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby ben etow » Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:56 pm

Hi Rojarosguitar and bacsidoan,

Could you compare the suggested Seaguar Premier to the Dr. Junger supersona XHT or Savarez of the corresponding tensions ? The standard Alliance 3rd advertised as HT feels like Dr. Junger's Supersona LT (MT is of a noticeably higher tension, HT even more so and XHT even more so...) and doesn't sound really brigher to my ears despite being probably less stiff.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby rojarosguitar » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:21 pm

Sorry, never played DR. Junger strings ... My response was related to the special application in the OP ...
I think, especially with relatively short scale length and thick calibre the consistency of the diameter and density of the material is of big importance for the intonation. Seaguar Premier is hard to beat in these disiplines.
Though stiffer strings (which is not the same as HT strings) will have more anharmonic overtones and so appear brighter, but at the cost of intonation
IMHO
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ben etow
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby ben etow » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:54 pm

This sounds nice theory to me, but those stiff Dr. Junger supersona XHT have absolutely no intonation problems. I had so many more problems with Savarez and even Hannabach carbs...

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby rojarosguitar » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:00 pm

ben etow wrote:This sounds nice theory to me, but those stiff Dr. Junger supersona XHT have absolutely no intonation problems. I had so many more problems with Savarez and even Hannabach carbs...


I don't think it's just a theory. But there is alsways the danger of misconstruing high tension (which is also hard on fingers) with high stiffness (resistance agaist sideways bending). This difference becomes more relevant with increasing diameter/length ratio. (But of course, I always consider the possibility of being wrong).

The stiffnes or lack of thereof becomes ore apparent with a loose string before you even put them on the guitar (but I'm sure you know that anyway, it's for the sake of explanation). Some strings sre very slack, some obviously stiff, when just held in the hand.

The intonation problems we encounter in treble strings are often of a much more prosaic nature IMHO: lack of constistency in diameter, density or both... Because it occurs in strings that are not excessively stiff or of excessively thick calibre.
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

ben etow
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby ben etow » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:02 pm

rojarosguitar wrote:The intonation problems we encounter in treble strings are often of a much more prosaic nature IMHO: lack of constistency in diameter, density or both...

Exactly, that's why I wouldn't consider the (probably accurate) theory of the calibre influencing the intonation quality... Dr. Junger must have a good quality control, much better than Savarez no doubt.

es335
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Re: Highest tension 3rd string carbon?

Postby es335 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:18 am

Dr. Junger = Pyramid with regard to production and quality control! :wink:


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