The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
Laudiesdad69
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The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:09 am

So, today I was really excited as I started to tackle Gary Ryan's Rondo Rodeo, a quite novel piece that was fun to play, until it happened. I went to slap my thumb down on the bass strings and "POP" went my low E. it just unraveled at the saddle and was hanging by one thin wrap of wire.

I had Savarez Traditional extra hard tension strings on the guitar. I had them tied the way I always do, with the floppy end at the bridge. So after 2 years of tying the bass strings this way (I was always told that is what the floppy end of the string was for). I decided that I would do as so many fellow delcampers have suggested and just "get rid of" the floppy end. Enter Augustine Classic Blue Hard Tension replacement set.

I tied the Low E string on with a single loop (I had already cut the floppy part off). Did the same thing with the A string (again cut the floppy part off). Got to the D string, and to my surprise, there were almost 4 inches of floppy string end on this string. I cut it off, but was only able to get two wraps around the capstan. It was just ridiculous. I am hoping to get another trip around the roller as the strings stretch. When I change strings next time, if I get one like that I will definitely return the strings. But you know how it is, I wasn't going to drive 20 miles just to exchange strings.

It makes me wonder, if everybody just cuts that part of the string off, why put it like that in he first place? I like to have between 3 to 5 wraps around the rollers, and today I got two - barely. Is the floppy piece there for a legitimate purpose? Or as some have suggested, there because of something having to do with manufacturing the string itself? I would really like to know the truth. Other strings I've tried had so little floppy portion to them that they couldn't have been tied to the bridge if you wanted to. So what purpose is it there for?

simonm
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by simonm » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:25 am

I tried Augustine string once - two sets. I got very frustrated with the "economical" length when you cut off the floppy bit - I had it at the tuner end first but it unravelled as I wound it on so I cut it. Given up on them.

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petermc61
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by petermc61 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:57 am

What exactly is wrong with two wraps around the capstan? If you have the string holding and not slipping what is the problem? Why do you need more wraps?

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:26 am

The only time in 45 + years I ever tried putting the floppy (by which I think you mean, where the winding is spaced out) at the bridge, it promptly broke, so if a string has such, it goes at the head end, and the surplus is cut off when the string has stabilised. I have never noticed the slightest problem doing it this way. You do have to pre-bend the end at the tie-block.
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rojarosguitar
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:50 am

I try to achieve as little wrapping around the roller as I can - that way the tuning settles faster. What I do is I use the 'normal' end (not the 'floppy' one) on the tie block and the floppy one on the roller. After the stringing and tuning to pitch is done, only then I cut the excess string as short as I want to have. (I always keep a bit more of the D-string to be able to shift it after a while to avoid premature wear on fret positions).
Of course you have to secure the string on the roller against slippage. Everybody has his own method for that. My method (for bass strings) consists of having the string hole in the roller perpendicular to the head, fading them from above down, coming back from behind and fade the end of the string under the incoming string and pulling it back, so that it crosses the string above the string hole. I don't do a knot here, because it is unnecessary and makes string-changing more difficult. I had never a slippage here.

Whether you like Augustine Blue or not is another issue but they never had been too short for me, not even on a 66cm scale length.

On the pics you will find exactly Augustin Blue 65cm guitar. Because the give in quite a bit, it results in something like 2.5 windings. The second pic shows the D string (here it is cut very short because of taking pictures with that guitar ... You can see here clearly the idea. Because I always go to the outside I let the end of the string go from outside to inside to have it out of the way...
string1.jpg
String2.jpg
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Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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Tom Poore
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by Tom Poore » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:03 pm

From “Guitar Player Repair Guide,” By Dan Erlewine:
Most wound classical strings have a limp end and a stiff end, while the unwound treble strings often have a plain end and a colored one. The limp end of a wound string is simply a result of the manufacturing process; it is not meant to be tied onto the bridge, although many guitarists mistakenly do this because it’s easier to wrap. The limp, loose, wrapped ends break sooner, and will not only mar the tie-block inlay, but scar the saddle as well, causing buzzing and intonation problems. Often the treble string ends are color-coded to identify tension (red=high; yellow=super high). Don’t tie the colored end to the bridge! As Jeff Elliott points out, “The color can transfer permanently to the finish of the top or the bridge, so I either clip it off or use the uncolored end.”
Tom Poore
South Euclid, OH
USA

Laudiesdad69
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:01 pm

Tom Poore wrote:From “Guitar Player Repair Guide,” By Dan Erlewine:
Most wound classical strings have a limp end and a stiff end, while the unwound treble strings often have a plain end and a colored one. The limp end of a wound string is simply a result of the manufacturing process; it is not meant to be tied onto the bridge, although many guitarists mistakenly do this because it’s easier to wrap. The limp, loose, wrapped ends break sooner, and will not only mar the tie-block inlay, but scar the saddle as well, causing buzzing and intonation problems. Often the treble string ends are color-coded to identify tension (red=high; yellow=super high). Don’t tie the colored end to the bridge! As Jeff Elliott points out, “The color can transfer permanently to the finish of the top or the bridge, so I either clip it off or use the uncolored end.”
Tom Poore
South Euclid, OH
USA
Thanks Tom, that's the best explanation I've heard yet. And now I know about the colored ends on the trebles.

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Feynman
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by Feynman » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:33 pm

rojarosguitar wrote:I try to achieve as little wrapping around the roller as I can ...
Likewise here.

--
I have used the Gilbert method (http://schrammguitars.com/tutorial.html) forever, and I've never had a string slip*, and very rarely a break. I use this method not because of some belief in its superior qualities but because it looks clean and elegant.

Give it a try - you may like it.



* I realize that typing that in a public forum has doomed me to a string slip in the immediate future.
-mitch

Laudiesdad69
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Re: The "Floppy" end - lesson learned and Augustine Classic Blue

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:45 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I now know a new way to attach the strings to the rollers. Thanks for the pics.
Scott

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