The effect of string quality on wood memory

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
User avatar
Rick Yzaguirre
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:36 am
Location: South Texas

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Rick Yzaguirre » Sun May 21, 2017 10:38 am

My poor guitars must be scarred, they have been subjected to my crappy playing. I'll have to play some Beethoven to them so maybe they can forgive the trauma.

User avatar
petermc61
Posts: 5800
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:11 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by petermc61 » Sun May 21, 2017 11:11 am

I am avoiding playing all my guitars as I don't want to ruin their sound by the quality of my playing. It's the least I can do for them.

User avatar
Beowulf
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:02 pm
Location: London, Ontario CANADA

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Beowulf » Sun May 21, 2017 2:13 pm

pogmoor wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 10:30 am
Beowulf wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 3:13 am
Nevertheless, there is no doubt that friction from movement creates heat and the increased energy in the molecules of the wood will affect the vibration characteristics of the wood.
An imperceptible rise in temperature will lead to an imperceptible change in the sound.
I doubt it is perceptible to touch, but that does not mean it could not be measured. Strings also warm up as they are played and the stiffness/elasticity changes. Increased temperature results in expansion and changes in the sound. As well, tuning must be adjusted. All I am saying is that as the soundboard vibrates it warms up slightly and this affects the stiffness of the wood/expansion of the top and results in perceptible changes in the sound. If an instrument has not been played for some time, this phenomenon is quite noticeable.
1971 Yamaha GC-10

daverkb
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:25 pm
Location: Roanoke, Virginia

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by daverkb » Thu May 25, 2017 9:29 pm

Ha! There ought to be an award for writing like this:
  • “..based on the integral law of wood deformation under loading and moisture content and/or temperature changing, ...”

    “This model takes into account the formation of a quasi-residual frozen strains ...”
But on the other hand, you can always learn something from almost anything. For example, it might be a good idea to stay away from all ‘quasi-residual frozen strains.” Warm strains are probably okay. Also, before getting into someone else’s car, you might wish to inquire about residual memories – like has the car ever been driven or run off the road. If so, avoid all such cars. Ditto for airplanes.

User avatar
spanishguitarmusic
Posts: 1113
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:58 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by spanishguitarmusic » Fri May 26, 2017 12:16 am

I better hurry up and change my guitar strings, as I tend to leave them on way too long! My last set I've left them on for about one year coming up in June. Thanks for the post.

Bill B
Posts: 1023
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:06 am
Location: Michigan

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Bill B » Fri May 26, 2017 2:56 am

pogmoor wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 10:30 am
Beowulf wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 3:13 am
Nevertheless, there is no doubt that friction from movement creates heat and the increased energy in the molecules of the wood will affect the vibration characteristics of the wood.
An imperceptible rise in temperature will lead to an imperceptible change in the sound.
Right. I would think if we were looking at the temperature to explain changes in the way it sounds, seasonal or environmental changes would be a much greater factor. Climate change would account for more than playing the guitar in this case.
2013 Angel Benito Aguado
2005 Ramirez R-2

User avatar
Beowulf
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:02 pm
Location: London, Ontario CANADA

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Beowulf » Fri May 26, 2017 12:34 pm

Bill B wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 2:56 am
pogmoor wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 10:30 am
Beowulf wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 3:13 am
Nevertheless, there is no doubt that friction from movement creates heat and the increased energy in the molecules of the wood will affect the vibration characteristics of the wood.
An imperceptible rise in temperature will lead to an imperceptible change in the sound.
Right. I would think if we were looking at the temperature to explain changes in the way it sounds, seasonal or environmental changes would be a much greater factor. Climate change would account for more than playing the guitar in this case.
It would be an interesting experiment to take a spruce top guitar play it a few times and then record the sound. Then let it sit unplayed for 40 years and record the sound again. Comparing the sound to a brother/sister instrument that was played for 40 years would be illuminating. Sadly, this experiment is impractical. :mrgreen:
1971 Yamaha GC-10

Bill B
Posts: 1023
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:06 am
Location: Michigan

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Bill B » Wed May 31, 2017 3:31 am

Beowulf wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 12:34 pm
Bill B wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 2:56 am
pogmoor wrote:
Sun May 21, 2017 10:30 am

An imperceptible rise in temperature will lead to an imperceptible change in the sound.
Right. I would think if we were looking at the temperature to explain changes in the way it sounds, seasonal or environmental changes would be a much greater factor. Climate change would account for more than playing the guitar in this case.
It would be an interesting experiment to take a spruce top guitar play it a few times and then record the sound. Then let it sit unplayed for 40 years and record the sound again. Comparing the sound to a brother/sister instrument that was played for 40 years would be illuminating. Sadly, this experiment is impractical. :mrgreen:
In this instance I was only talking about the effect of heat on the guitar, in particular the heat we assume is generated by playing the guitar, compared to other sources of heat that the guitar is subject to. I think it is incredibly obvious that the guitar is subject to more heat from the environment than from the mechanical process of being played. Any guitar in the real world that is. Hypothetical guitars are a different beast all together
2013 Angel Benito Aguado
2005 Ramirez R-2

User avatar
Beowulf
Posts: 229
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:02 pm
Location: London, Ontario CANADA

Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Beowulf » Wed May 31, 2017 2:42 pm

Bill B wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 3:31 am
In this instance I was only talking about the effect of heat on the guitar, in particular the heat we assume is generated by playing the guitar, compared to other sources of heat that the guitar is subject to. I think it is incredibly obvious that the guitar is subject to more heat from the environment than from the mechanical process of being played. Any guitar in the real world that is. Hypothetical guitars are a different beast all together
Yes, the degree of heat variation from environmental sources is much greater, however it is uniform over the entire soundboard. For example, when wood is aged in temperature/humidity controlled environments, the soundboard is not subjected to variations that depend upon the response of the wood fibers to movement. Playing the instrument results in changes due to the vibrational modes which are a function of density, grain, resin distribution, etc. I do think that movement patterns of the soundboard gradually consolidate and this affects the tonal characteristics of the instrument. My reference to heat from friction was simply to suggest a mechanism.
1971 Yamaha GC-10

Return to “Classical Guitar Strings”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], fraim, khayes, robinfw, Sharkbait and 7 guests