The effect of string quality on wood memory

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
Laudiesdad69
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Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:51 pm

I would think that the article is backing up what we have observed...the guitar always sounds best with new strings.😛

Wuuthrad
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Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Wuuthrad » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:58 am

Earlier, in this Equinoxical Harvest, both Balalaika and Dulcimer, gallantly arrived to Campfire Song

Very Old Strings, indeed! Mere decades past, since base metals, forged anew or tied asunder!

Past hours of melancholic tunes and melodious jams, to sit arest on wooden benches...

Whenceforth was sent a secret cry; to the forest nymphs and woodland sprites,
silently sweet, and thickly deep- a foggy mist, through the darkest deeps of that sonorous night...

Alas- Pray tell: Wood was soaked! Sweating, soggy, and furthermore- vibrating late into that magical night!

Strings alive once dead rang true, and sang sweet songs to rise again!

Rognvald
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Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Rognvald » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:10 am

guitarrista wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:43 pm
I summarized a scientific paper and linked to it on the first page of this thread.


Hi, G,
I just read the entire study. I couldn't find a relationship to "wood memory" in the article which would apply to the CG. I, also, didn't find anything definitive in the highlights you provided. Can you elucidate? Thanks. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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guitarrista
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Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by guitarrista » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:59 pm

Rognvald wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:10 am
guitarrista wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:43 pm
I summarized a scientific paper and linked to it on the first page of this thread.
Hi, G,
I just read the entire study. I couldn't find a relationship to "wood memory" in the article which would apply to the CG. I, also, didn't find anything definitive in the highlights you provided. Can you elucidate? Thanks. Playing again . . . Rognvald
The "wood memory" is the "frozen" nanostrains and the "plastic" strains; the former influenced by temperature, force, and moisture. While the article is about shape deformations/memory, I made the link to guitar from there: "Apparently there are quasi-permanent changes in the wood nanostructure dependent on moisture, temperature and stress-loading. This is probably what is referred to a guitar "opening-up" - the formation of these frozen nanostructure strains - as a result of continuous loading from the strings and possibly due to some residual drying."

And no, I don't think there is any truth to "continuing use of worn strings can harm your guitar's sound temporarily or even permanently".
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Rognvald
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Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Rognvald » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:25 pm

Yes, thanks, G, but what I find vague is the statement "Apparently there are quasi-permanent changes in the wood nanostructure ." The terms "apparently" and "quasi" are not what I would call definitive and in a scientific prospective would be considered, by most, speculative. However, having been a sailor for most of my life and working with mainly teak, there are definitely "events", in my opinion, that permanently change the physical nature of the wood. This, however, goes beyond shrinking/swelling caused by humidity but would suggest either deformation from trauma or repeated vibrations of unequal intensity that would effect the grain at a molecular level. I have experienced the former and strongly feel the later is a consequence of a player's style and how it effects the ultimate sound of the guitar which in my opinion would be permanent. This, as I have previously stated, was a strong opinion expressed to me by A. LoPrinzi . . . the builder of one of my guitars. Perhaps other luthiers on this forum would like to comment. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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guitarrista
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Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by guitarrista » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:50 pm

Rognvald wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:25 pm
The terms "apparently" and "quasi" are not what I would call definitive and in a scientific prospective would be considered, by most, speculative.
Haha, no, actually this is precisely the language scientists typically use (maybe I have a DĂ©formation Professionnelle); if you are looking for absolute certainty, science is exactly not where to find it; it is the nature of the scientific method.

As for the specific words you brought up, "Apparently" because it is not my research and it is just one stream of papers (that one and the references therein) out of one research team; and I am not a wood scientist. "Quasi-permanent" is my shortcut way to reflect what the paper says - which is that the "frozen" nanostrains are reversible with external changes - hence quasi-permanent - permanent under relatively stable external conditions to do with stress-loading, temperature and moisture, but changeable if the external conditions change significantly.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Rognvald
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Re: The effect of string quality on wood memory

Post by Rognvald » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:21 pm

"Haha, no, actually this is precisely the language scientists typically use (maybe I have a DĂ©formation Professionnelle); if you are looking for absolute certainty, science is exactly not where to find it; it is the nature of the scientific method. " Guitarrista

So, G, do we have a theorem or a postulate? Although versed in the "Black Arts," I bring a philosopher's scrutiny to the table in lieu of a "Deformation Professionelle." And, to avoid confusion among the unwashed(I will pray a Rosary 10x tonight for my thoughtless slander), my belief remains the same: a guitar will reflect its owner in its intricacies, nuances and positive or negative deformations of the wood. Perhaps my Science is looking for "absolute certainty." Rognvald in absolution . . . and of course, . . . playing again.
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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