Nit-picking top string...

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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Charles Mokotoff
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Nit-picking top string...

Post by Charles Mokotoff » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:36 am

I have heard the rumor that only classical guitarists would get this fussy...might be true, nonetheless:
On my current guitar, a carbon top string is just too out there, I can control it, the sound of it open is great, but it is just too shrill on many (ok, most) of the fretted notes.

Using nylon (in this case Augustine Regal) all the fretted notes sound great, but I just don't like the sound of the open string.

Again this is just the TOP string, high E, rest of guitar is great and far less sensitive to various types of strings. 3 and 2 are currently high tension Knobloch carbon and I have no complaints.

Any top string suggestions? (I don't like the sound of Dogal on this guitar, by the way...)

Thanks.

Kintla
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Kintla » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:52 pm

Augustine's are a good choice imo. You might try a lower tension set, but it seems you are set on the high tension Regal's. I too don't like the "pingy" carbons especially for the first.

jnbrown
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by jnbrown » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:01 pm

Have you tried Hannabach 815? That is my current favorite, use it for B string also.
I am using 815LT but going to try 815MT next.

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bacsidoan
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by bacsidoan » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:35 pm

Charles Mokotoff wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:36 am
I have heard the rumor that only classical guitarists would get this fussy...might be true, nonetheless:
On my current guitar, a carbon top string is just too out there, I can control it, the sound of it open is great, but it is just too shrill on many (ok, most) of the fretted notes.

Using nylon (in this case Augustine Regal) all the fretted notes sound great, but I just don't like the sound of the open string.

Again this is just the TOP string, high E, rest of guitar is great and far less sensitive to various types of strings. 3 and 2 are currently high tension Knobloch carbon and I have no complaints.

Any top string suggestions? (I don't like the sound of Dogal on this guitar, by the way...)

Thanks.
Consider the use of Zero-Glide nut. There's a good chance that your E-string fuss might be appeased with the combination of that nut and Augustine regal. However, the open notes on other strings might become too bright to your liking. The good news is that the Zero-Glide is pretty inexpensive, and you can try it out without any modifications. Kent of Rosette Guitar Products (also a Delcamper) have those nuts made to his specifications which are ideal for CG players. Shoot him a PM, he'll do you justice. Don't buy it from anyone else.

Jack Douglas
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Jack Douglas » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:43 am

Charles,
I have three thoughts. First, your guitar is fairly new and it's been my experience (new Ruck, new Velazquez and new Hauser) that the e string is the last to open up. So, it may just be that your guitar hasn't completely blossomed.
My second is that a high tension Hauser nylon string might be perfect. I really like them. To my ear they are sweet, but not so bright and piercing. I'll mail you an e treble that you can try. It will not sound its best until after 5-6 days.
The third thought is an idea Doug Ching shared with me. He thinks that high tension bass and g strings
paired with medium high tension b and e makes a good combination to open up the guitar. He says the high tension basses provide the energy to drive the bass side, but a high tension b and e tend to freeze up the top. I made the change with the string tensions using all Hauser strings and the difference is noticeable and positive. To be clear this is for my traditional braced instrument.
I'm anxious to hear your new guitar in person.
Jack
Hauser III 2014!

Kenbobpdx
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Kenbobpdx » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:27 pm

I would suggest trying Aqiula Alabastro trebles for this. The tensions are a bit higher than nylon but below equivalent tension carbons. Tonally they are very good. They do not have the harshness of carbons while having a sound that is very clean and pure.

I have used Hannabach 815 trebles and really like them but I set my guitar up with Aquilas recently and was very pleasantly surprised.
"If I had 8 hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe."
Abraham Lincoln

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Charles Mokotoff
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Charles Mokotoff » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:36 pm

Kenbobpdx wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:27 pm
I would suggest trying Aqiula Alabastro trebles for this. The tensions are a bit higher than nylon but below equivalent tension carbons. Tonally they are very good. They do not have the harshness of carbons while having a sound that is very clean and pure.

I have used Hannabach 815 trebles and really like them but I set my guitar up with Aquilas recently and was very pleasantly surprised.
What guitar are you using?

Kenbobpdx
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Kenbobpdx » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:40 pm

Charles Mokotoff wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:36 pm
Kenbobpdx wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:27 pm
I would suggest trying Aqiula Alabastro trebles for this. The tensions are a bit higher than nylon but below equivalent tension carbons. Tonally they are very good. They do not have the harshness of carbons while having a sound that is very clean and pure.

I have used Hannabach 815 trebles and really like them but I set my guitar up with Aquilas recently and was very pleasantly surprised.
What guitar are you using?
A 1982 Cynthia Burton. Hauser bracing, Engelmann spruce top, EIR back and sides.
"If I had 8 hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my axe."
Abraham Lincoln

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petermc61
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by petermc61 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:46 pm

Hi Charles,

I'm a bit picky when it comes to strings too, but even I have never been happy with the sound of a string at all fretted positions but been unhappy with the open string. Sounds more like a very subtle nut problem to me.

Maybe the bone density is a bit variable or the nut slot just a tiny bit imperfect, both could give a less than optimal termination compared to a fret and change the sound subtly. I'd look there first rather than searching for other brands of string. Even if the nut looks perfect, have a luthier make you a copy of it and see what happens with a new nut.

Cheers
Peter

astro64
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by astro64 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:17 pm

I am also confused by the question, since generally a carbon treble is more likely to have issues in the open position, since it is thinner and the nut slot may be a bit too wide. That does not seem to be a problem here, so I am stumped. I.e. I don't think I ever had a case where an open carbon treble string sounded Ok, but not an open nylon treble string. Anyway, compared to a regal, here are some different nylon trebles that have worked well for me lately: Aranjuez Suave 800 on my Kono and Regency MT nylon on the Byers cedar.

Laudiesdad69
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:55 am

If your using carbon trebles, you might try a Dogal Diamante for the high E. They are nylon/carbon hybrids. The high E is a little pingy at first, but after about 5 days they settle down. I know you say you didn't like Dogal, but you didn't specify which of their strings you had tried. And you could buy a single string from SBM.

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David Norton
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by David Norton » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:26 am

Off the top of my head? A nap is what's called for. Lie down until the mix-n-match anxiety goes away. Then enjoy what you've got.
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

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Charles Mokotoff
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Charles Mokotoff » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:51 pm

David_Norton wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:26 am
Off the top of my head? A nap is what's called for. Lie down until the mix-n-match anxiety goes away. Then enjoy what you've got.
Great advice! :merci:

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Kent
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by Kent » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:04 pm

petermc61 wrote:
Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:46 pm
Hi Charles,

I'm a bit picky when it comes to strings too, but even I have never been happy with the sound of a string at all fretted positions but been unhappy with the open string. Sounds more like a very subtle nut problem to me.

Maybe the bone density is a bit variable or the nut slot just a tiny bit imperfect, both could give a less than optimal termination compared to a fret and change the sound subtly. I'd look there first rather than searching for other brands of string. Even if the nut looks perfect, have a luthier make you a copy of it and see what happens with a new nut.

Cheers
Peter
Maybe Charles could experiment with a Zero Fret nut configuration on the guitar? Works for me.

MessyTendon
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Re: Nit-picking top string...

Post by MessyTendon » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:16 am

The nut and saddle are fine...we are talking about a high end guitar here aren't we? Maybe, just maybe, this guitar is always going to sound that way on the high e...

Nomex in guitars often makes the high e sound shrill. It's probably the guitar.

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