Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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joachim33
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Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by joachim33 » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:09 pm

So far I have mostly used Savarez strings. As discussed before I notice the trebles go sharp while playing. On my current New Cristal high tension strings (510CJ set) more than 20 cents after 5 min of Arpeggio playing are not uncommon. The strings are about 3 weeks old. While I first thought this was funny! It now starts to irritate me. The normal tension set (510CR) I had before was in the 10 to 20 cent range.

I store the instrument in a case and typically not in my practice room.

Is this normal or is Savarez New Cristal particularly prone to this? Any else fighting this? Do other brand show less of this? Thanks.

MessyTendon
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by MessyTendon » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:47 pm

Luck of the draw. Maybe they are worn. If you play heavily and I mean actual hours of study, three weeks is not out of the norm. The other tweak you might try is to retie them reverse the bottom to top assuming you left enough string to work with.

I often leave all the dangly bits and coil them up...after awhile I re-tie them the other way around. It adds some sparkle and life back to old strings.

Try that and see if you get better pitch stability. If you like a good old nylon sound without bells and whistles, I can suggest trying GHS Muriel Andersen signature strings. They come with the ball ends already melted at the end...kind of a nice feature. Also they are half the price of Savarez, if you like them consider it a 2 for one deal...

I really don't understand the Savarez premiums they charge. I can get comparable materials fro half price. GHS is said to be Titanium trebles...most likely a fancy name for Dupont Tynex....most all the big names are just using some form of nylon mono filament material then doing the extruding...

So really, for what it's worth, I say try them because they are half the price and likely the same materials.

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guitarrista
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by guitarrista » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:16 am

joachim33 wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:09 pm
So far I have mostly used Savarez strings. As discussed before I notice the trebles go sharp while playing. On my current New Cristal high tension strings (510CJ set) more than 20 cents after 5 min of Arpeggio playing are not uncommon.
This is just normal and not to do with Savarez; any nylon strings will go sharp when warmed up from playing. Is it cold/cool where you are and/or where you store the guitar? If so it would be more noticeable as you bring the strings' temperature up from playing and from bringing the guitar into a warmer room.
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Marshall Dixon
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played war

Post by Marshall Dixon » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:22 am

The first question that comes to mind: is the humidity, and/or temperature, inside the case and that of your practice room different?

Edit- ah guitarista! what is said about minds that think alike!

Kurt Penner
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by Kurt Penner » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:48 am

I noticed the same sharpening while playing from D'addario Titanium trebles. Drove me nuts, though I like the tone. Had to abandon them.

KP

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petermc61
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by petermc61 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:31 am

Common with most brands on nylon strings, though less and 20c from my experience.

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joachim33
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by joachim33 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:57 am

Hi again. Thanks for replying. So I take I am not alone here and that changing brands wouldn't help much. Thanks. I try to bring the guitar early to my playing room to allow it to warmup. Seems not to help much.

Any idea how humidity affects things? In winter I used soundhole humidification in the case - the house (northern Europe) is obviously dry in side. So the strings and instrument would start to dry when playing. Now in summer I don't do anything.

I do not regard the strings as spend. Actually to my ears Savarez New Cristal (and Alliance - I had one set of these as well) take about 2 weeks to sound nice (about 10h playing a week). I had the previous set for about 2 month and still feel I could have given them more time on the instrument. To me they are just "broken in".

wchymeus
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by wchymeus » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:10 am

It's funny you're noticing this just now and I agree that 20c is a lot in fact. I'd guess that it may be the set you are playing which is a bit unusual.
Also, I found that the New Cristal tend to set up fast and give a pretty even sound. After 3 weeks, I noticed that the color is slightly changing to a more "caramel"-ish sound. After 2 months trebles are still ok but I feel that bass sound dull and just good enough for baroque music :-)
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Beowulf
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by Beowulf » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:50 pm

After 5 minutes of playing arpeggios, perhaps you could simply retune? I assume the sharpening does not continue once the strings are warmed up? I seldom get through an hours or two of playing without
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joachim33
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by joachim33 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:01 pm

MessyTendon wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:47 pm
Luck of the draw. Maybe they are worn. If you play heavily and I mean actual hours of study, three weeks is not out of the norm. The other tweak you might try is to retie them reverse the bottom to top assuming you left enough string to work with.

I often leave all the dangly bits and coil them up...after awhile I re-tie them the other way around. It adds some sparkle and life back to old strings.

Try that and see if you get better pitch stability. If you like a good old nylon sound without bells and whistles, I can suggest trying GHS Muriel Andersen signature strings. They come with the ball ends already melted at the end...kind of a nice feature. Also they are half the price of Savarez, if you like them consider it a 2 for one deal...

I really don't understand the Savarez premiums they charge. I can get comparable materials fro half price. GHS is said to be Titanium trebles...most likely a fancy name for Dupont Tynex....most all the big names are just using some form of nylon mono filament material then doing the extruding...

So really, for what it's worth, I say try them because they are half the price and likely the same materials.

Using my usual supply channel the GHS you suggest are about 10% cheaper than e.g. Savarez 510CR. So it is not that dramatic here.

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joachim33
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by joachim33 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:07 pm

Beowulf wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:50 pm
After 5 minutes of playing arpeggios, perhaps you could simply retune? I assume the sharpening does not continue once the strings are warmed up? I seldom get through an hours or two of playing without
I often retune two or three times before things stabilise. I find 10 cent out between 3rd and 4th string quite noticeable.

So thanks for confirming this is more or less normal and apart from returning not much can be done about it.

astro64
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by astro64 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:16 pm

I always have to retune the nylon trebles after playing for 5 minutes, your finger tips heat them up. It doesn't take much for them to go sharp. It has nothing to do with the string brand but with the string type. "Carbon trebles" suffer less from this, think Savarez Alliance, Oasis Carbon, Knobloch carbon etc. However, the carbon trebles have more systematic tuning issues. If you have a good one, they last a long time, but some of them play flat or sharp from day one and there is nothing you can do about that except replace it. But they are much less temperature sensitive.

D.Cass
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by D.Cass » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:39 pm

Not to long ago I put some cristal strings on and noticed particularly the G string going sharp. I finally got fed up and changed the treble strings. However, my other guitar strung with D'addario strings doesn't seem to suffer.

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joachim33
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by joachim33 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:51 pm

D.Cass wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:39 pm
Not to long ago I put some cristal strings on and noticed particularly the G string going sharp. I finally got fed up and changed the treble strings. However, my other guitar strung with D'addario strings doesn't seem to suffer.
Thanks for contributing. On your first guitar, which trebles did you use after taking the Savarez off?

D.Cass
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Re: Savarez trebles going sharp when played warm

Post by D.Cass » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:09 pm

I had a pack of Dogal around. No issues with them, except not a huge fan of the bass strings. On a side note, I generally use Saveraz Corum Alliance on that guitar. I never had any issues with them.

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