Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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Tomzooki
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Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Tomzooki » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:23 am

I bought two rolls of Seaguar Premier fishing lines to try as a 1st string (40lb) and a 2nd string (60lb) on my 630mm Lacote copy. I am amazed by the result! Even before plucking a note, when I was touching them, they yelded that somewhat glassy sound that gut strings do when touched the same way (I played viola da gamba for ten years, I know gut strings, but I know them enough to never, ever put them on a guitar, even a real romantic one. It is too risky for my mental health!!!). And the sound when played is really amazing, bright but also round - quite reminescent of gut strings - really loud and very sensitive. I have to attack toward the soundboard; if not the tone is very thin and brittle; that may explain the negative comments I read about it as a first string.

I wanted to try them because I litterally kill my 1st string within few hours of play. My nails are very thin - I keep them very short, my attack is quite strong, but of course not strong like concert players so it is not the only reason I kill my trebles so quickly. I tried D'Addario Pro-Arte, Aquila Albastro, LaBella 2001, Oasis nylon and carbon, Savarez Alliance and New Crystal, etc. Seaguar Premier are supposed to last very long; I will see.

Now I am waiting for some 80lb I ordered for the 3rd string :-)
Benoît Raby, Engelmann sp/Ziricote
Yamaha GC-3A
11-strings alto guitar by Heikki Rousu, sp/indonesian RW

Leo
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Location: Bay Area, California

Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Leo » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:12 pm

I use the 40 lbs string for my first string in combination with Galli carbon b and g strings, I like the 40 lbs Seaguar Premier because it is less tension than the e string that comes with Galli set and blends in well, but I have not tried the 60 and 80 lbs strings. After several months of playing all carbon strings on a guitar, the guitar sometimes tends to sound too metallic, but I have two other guitars to choose from and this helps.

The main reason that I use carbon strings on one of my guitars, is that this guitar is too bass heavy with normal nylon strings, Because the bass strings overpower the nylon treble strings in both volume and sustain, the carbon strings help balance things out. I find I get a substantial amount of increased volume and sustain with carbon strings. I also think carbon strings last longer than nylon stings. :)

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bacsidoan
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by bacsidoan » Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:32 pm

Tomzooki wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:23 am
I bought two rolls of Seaguar Premier fishing lines to try as a 1st string (40lb) and a 2nd string (60lb) on my 630mm Lacote copy. I am amazed by the result! Even before plucking a note, when I was touching them, they yelded that somewhat glassy sound that gut strings do when touched the same way (I played viola da gamba for ten years, I know gut strings, but I know them enough to never, ever put them on a guitar, even a real romantic one. It is too risky for my mental health!!!). And the sound when played is really amazing, bright but also round - quite reminescent of gut strings - really loud and very sensitive. I have to attack toward the soundboard; if not the tone is very thin and brittle; that may explain the negative comments I read about it as a first string.

I wanted to try them because I litterally kill my 1st string within few hours of play. My nails are very thin - I keep them very short, my attack is quite strong, but of course not strong like concert players so it is not the only reason I kill my trebles so quickly. I tried D'Addario Pro-Arte, Aquila Albastro, LaBella 2001, Oasis nylon and carbon, Savarez Alliance and New Crystal, etc. Seaguar Premier are supposed to last very long; I will see.

Now I am waiting for some 80lb I ordered for the 3rd string :-)
On shorter scale guitar, I suggest that you try #50 for the high E string. The tension is a little high for a 650 mm scale guitar, but might be tolerable for yours. By the same token, consider #100 for the G-string.

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Tomzooki
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Tomzooki » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:37 pm

bacsidoan wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:32 pm
Tomzooki wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:23 am
I bought two rolls of Seaguar Premier fishing lines to try as a 1st string (40lb) and a 2nd string (60lb) on my 630mm Lacote copy. I am amazed by the result! Even before plucking a note, when I was touching them, they yelded that somewhat glassy sound that gut strings do when touched the same way (I played viola da gamba for ten years, I know gut strings, but I know them enough to never, ever put them on a guitar, even a real romantic one. It is too risky for my mental health!!!). And the sound when played is really amazing, bright but also round - quite reminescent of gut strings - really loud and very sensitive. I have to attack toward the soundboard; if not the tone is very thin and brittle; that may explain the negative comments I read about it as a first string.

I wanted to try them because I litterally kill my 1st string within few hours of play. My nails are very thin - I keep them very short, my attack is quite strong, but of course not strong like concert players so it is not the only reason I kill my trebles so quickly. I tried D'Addario Pro-Arte, Aquila Albastro, LaBella 2001, Oasis nylon and carbon, Savarez Alliance and New Crystal, etc. Seaguar Premier are supposed to last very long; I will see.

Now I am waiting for some 80lb I ordered for the 3rd string :-)
On shorter scale guitar, I suggest that you try #50 for the high E string. The tension is a little high for a 650 mm scale guitar, but might be tolerable for yours. By the same token, consider #100 for the G-string.
That would be OK for a "modern" 630mm, but period instruments need generaly lower tension. For a 630mm Lacote copy it is suggested to use light tension, though on mine normal tension seems better in terms of sound and playability (it is not an accurate reproduction). I plan to order a 607mm Stauffer copy (more accurate this time); I may have to consider your advice then ;-)
Benoît Raby, Engelmann sp/Ziricote
Yamaha GC-3A
11-strings alto guitar by Heikki Rousu, sp/indonesian RW

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Tomzooki
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Location: Quebec city, Canada

Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Tomzooki » Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:39 pm

Leo wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:12 pm
I use the 40 lbs string for my first string in combination with Galli carbon b and g strings, I like the 40 lbs Seaguar Premier because it is less tension than the e string that comes with Galli set and blends in well, but I have not tried the 60 and 80 lbs strings. After several months of playing all carbon strings on a guitar, the guitar sometimes tends to sound too metallic, but I have two other guitars to choose from and this helps.

The main reason that I use carbon strings on one of my guitars, is that this guitar is too bass heavy with normal nylon strings, Because the bass strings overpower the nylon treble strings in both volume and sustain, the carbon strings help balance things out. I find I get a substantial amount of increased volume and sustain with carbon strings. I also think carbon strings last longer than nylon stings. :)
I read somewhere in this forum that somebody uses Seaguar Red Label instead of Premier as a 1st string for that kind of reason. I plan to give it a try.
Benoît Raby, Engelmann sp/Ziricote
Yamaha GC-3A
11-strings alto guitar by Heikki Rousu, sp/indonesian RW

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Hotsoup
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Location: Bellingham, WA (USA)

Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Hotsoup » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:26 pm

I'm finally experimenting with some Seaguar, using 80lb for my 3rd string on a 650 scale. It's quite pleasant and the boost in sustain was noticeable. Intonation isn't perfect, but it's not horrible either. It feels like a low tension string, and mixed in with a standard EJ45 set, it's about the same diameter (if not very slightly smaller) than the 2nd string. I thought that might throw me off, but it doesn't. I might be interested to try a 90lb 3rd string, or 100lb if that's not too high.

es335
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by es335 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:10 am

Hotsoup wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:26 pm
I'm finally experimenting with some Seaguar, using 80lb for my 3rd string on a 650 scale. It's quite pleasant and the boost in sustain was noticeable. Intonation isn't perfect, but it's not horrible either. It feels like a low tension string, and mixed in with a standard EJ45 set, it's about the same diameter (if not very slightly smaller) than the 2nd string. I thought that might throw me off, but it doesn't. I might be interested to try a 90lb 3rd string, or 100lb if that's not too high.
80lb is quite on the soft side of the tension spectrum though still fine to play. Tonewise very nice but unfortunatelly really bad intonation on my guitar which stopped me using them. BTW the actual diameter (0.78 mm if I remember well) is well below the nominal value and indeed smaller than the Nylon b EJ45!

MessyTendon
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by MessyTendon » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:14 pm

Devils advocate here...what's the point in putting carbon strings on a period instrument? Why not try the Bow Brand strings that Rob mentions from time to time. They are not too pricey.

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Tomzooki
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Tomzooki » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:04 pm

MessyTendon wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:14 pm
Devils advocate here...what's the point in putting carbon strings on a period instrument? Why not try the Bow Brand strings that Rob mentions from time to time. They are not too pricey.
Easy: I want to keep my mental health lol! I live in Quebec
city, our climate is very changing and often very humid. I remember having heard Suzy Naper, a gambist from Montreal, say after a concert here that it was always a nightmare to play in Quebec city because the instrument would not stay in tune for a whole piece...

And the other reason: I am trying those fishing lines because I kill my trebles quickly. Imagine gut..... I keep my nails very short though. In fact the length of the free part of my index nail (not what exceed the finger tip, they are not exceeding they are flush; my a nail is shorter than my a fingertip) is 1mm, so even if it was completely cut it would still touch the string, and damage it.
Benoît Raby, Engelmann sp/Ziricote
Yamaha GC-3A
11-strings alto guitar by Heikki Rousu, sp/indonesian RW

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Tomzooki
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Tomzooki » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:07 pm

es335 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:10 am
Hotsoup wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:26 pm
I'm finally experimenting with some Seaguar, using 80lb for my 3rd string on a 650 scale. It's quite pleasant and the boost in sustain was noticeable. Intonation isn't perfect, but it's not horrible either. It feels like a low tension string, and mixed in with a standard EJ45 set, it's about the same diameter (if not very slightly smaller) than the 2nd string. I thought that might throw me off, but it doesn't. I might be interested to try a 90lb 3rd string, or 100lb if that's not too high.
80lb is quite on the soft side of the tension spectrum though still fine to play. Tonewise very nice but unfortunatelly really bad intonation on my guitar which stopped me using them. BTW the actual diameter (0.78 mm if I remember well) is well below the nominal value and indeed smaller than the Nylon b EJ45!
That doesn't mean the tension is less, remember that fluorocarbon is much more dense than nylon, and Seaguar Premier is even denser than most FC.
Benoît Raby, Engelmann sp/Ziricote
Yamaha GC-3A
11-strings alto guitar by Heikki Rousu, sp/indonesian RW

es335
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Location: Germany

Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by es335 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:19 pm

Tomzooki wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:07 pm
...That doesn't mean the tension is less, remember that fluorocarbon is much more dense than nylon, and Seaguar Premier is even denser than most FC.
Agreed but believe me 80 lb Seaguar Premier feels softer than any other Carbon g in the market and much softer then 100 lb Seaguar. Tension wise a good match with low or normal tension Nylon sets ... provided the intonation is right. On two of my guitars the intonation becomes audible flat from the middle of the fretboard. Tried different pieces from the same reel, reversed them but nothing really helped sufficiently. :(
Last edited by es335 on Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bacsidoan
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by bacsidoan » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:03 pm

es335 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:19 pm
Tomzooki wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:07 pm
...That doesn't mean the tension is less, remember that fluorocarbon is much more dense than nylon, and Seaguar Premier is even denser than most FC.
Agreed but 80 lb Seaguar Premier feels really soft ... probably just right when you prefer low resp. normal/medium tension strings ... provided the intonation is acceptable which is unfortunately not the case with even two of my guitars. Tried several pieces from the same reel, reversed them but nothing really helped sufficiently. :(
Bad intonation in what way: sharp or flat?

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Hotsoup
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by Hotsoup » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:05 pm

The intonation has actually improved over the last few days, not sure how that works. I just tested it now on my tuner and it was very close at the 12th fret, probably less than a cent off. When I'd first put it on, it was around 5 or 6 cents flat at 12.

es335
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by es335 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:13 pm

bacsidoan wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:03 pm
es335 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:19 pm
Tomzooki wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:07 pm
...That doesn't mean the tension is less, remember that fluorocarbon is much more dense than nylon, and Seaguar Premier is even denser than most FC.
Agreed but 80 lb Seaguar Premier feels really soft ... probably just right when you prefer low resp. normal/medium tension strings ... provided the intonation is acceptable which is unfortunately not the case with even two of my guitars. Tried several pieces from the same reel, reversed them but nothing really helped sufficiently. :(
Bad intonation in what way: sharp or flat?
Flat starting from the middle of the fretboard. BTW both guitars do have a good intonation otherwise.

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bacsidoan
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Re: Seaguar Premier fishing lines

Post by bacsidoan » Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:26 pm

es335 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:13 pm
bacsidoan wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:03 pm
es335 wrote:
Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:19 pm

Agreed but 80 lb Seaguar Premier feels really soft ... probably just right when you prefer low resp. normal/medium tension strings ... provided the intonation is acceptable which is unfortunately not the case with even two of my guitars. Tried several pieces from the same reel, reversed them but nothing really helped sufficiently. :(
Bad intonation in what way: sharp or flat?
Flat starting from the middle of the fretboard. BTW both guitars do have a good intonation otherwise.
The problem is not the Seaguar Premier string itself. In fact the string is softer,smaller and consequently requires less compensation than the stiff, large nylon G-string for which your guitar was overcompensated.

Not terribly difficult to fix. Use a small file or even a small emery board to slant the saddle maximally toward the headstock (only at the slot for the 3rd string). This will maximize the negative saddle compensation at the 3rd string slot. If that's not enough, you can also slant the nut toward the headstock to add a little negative nut compensation.
Last edited by bacsidoan on Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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