12 String Classical Guitar

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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Sobers
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Location: Kolkata (Calcutta), India

12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Sobers » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:55 pm

Dear friends,
Anyone has any clue about 12 string Classical Guitar?
I saw photos of that species in the internet but they were the ancient forms of Lute, Vihuela and modern nylon string guitar.
The fret boards were not so wide like Narciso Yepes 10-string model and the strings were coupled.
What happened to those instruments?
Is there any Vihuela player or Latin guitar player in this forum?
Bajo Sexto is one instrument still used by Mariachi guitarists, but is there any nylon string-ed Bajo Sexto?

So many rare instruments are becoming extinct day by day, sometimes overnight, can't we do anything?
Any awareness?

Sobers

Azalais

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Azalais » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:42 pm

Several people on the forum play replicas of renaissance vihuelas (usually 6 courses.. 11-strings) and baroque guitar (usually 5-courses), and there is so much excellent music written for them (also lute music). They are much lighter in construction than a modern steel string 12-string guitar, but the tuning is virtually the same. The strings are usually very low tension and are often made of gut like the old ones. The strings are in pairs (doubled - some in unison, some in octaves) and the necks are narrow (48-50mm). The frets are tied onto the neck, not made of metal.

There are some very good .mp3, and videos of people playing them here on the forum and also on Youtube, Vimeo and Daily Motion. (You can start by look for videos by Thomas and RobMac on the forum)

Rainwater

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Rainwater » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:13 pm

Yes.....I know about a twelve string classical guitar.....it's a Russian guitar; it's called a Gran Guitar. One of my favorite guitarists, Anastasia Bardina (Russian) plays a few songs with it. It has six nylon strings, and six steel strings. The strings are offset, so one can play one or two string notes.....don't ask me how Anastasia plays this thing, I wouldn't even know where to begin. I'm guessing, but I think Anastasia's favorite guitar is the "seven string". She plays a lot of songs with this guitar. Another cool thing ( I know most Classical Guitarists would disagree ) is that Anastasia plugs into a sizeable Marshall amp when she performs. Her guitar still sounds like a classical guitar to me......I heard Segovia play many years ago in Houston in a big concert hall......no amplification, I'm sitting in the 'cheap seats'; wishing I could hear him.
Hope this helps.....

Google "Gran Guitar" and see what comes up! later

Rainwater

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Rainwater » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:21 pm

I just googled " Gran Guitar " It should be the first in the listing.

It stands for.... Guitar Russian Accoustically New GRAN Guitar

the website explains it quite well.....it has a unique bridge, and 'spead reading' I think it can be strung in different patterns....check it out......the tuners were manufactured in an old 'machine gun factory'.......it's interesting.

I think there are some sound bites of the GRAN Guitar being played......

hope this is helpful.

MikFik

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by MikFik » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:50 am

I have built a few classical guitars lately that have 9 strings. The treble strings are singles but the basses are doubled in octaves or unisons. I am using basses in octaves right now and I love it. The guitar pictured is tuned like a Terz guitar (up a minor 3rd) or I can tune it 2 steps higher so the strings on the outside are tuned to a (a 4th above a guitar) It has a very short scale legnth and sounds great.
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Sobers
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Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Sobers » Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:49 pm

Hi,

Your work is really great.
Please attach a little bit of sound sample if you can.

Have you seen my post on 6 Course Baroque Guitar/Vihuela ?
Please express your views on it.

Also I've asked for forum member's support for the awareness on the instruments those are not in the mainstream.
If you feel for an instrument that deserves to exist more, please express something in the post Extinct Instruments in The Cafe.

Sobers

MikFik

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by MikFik » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:26 am

To "Sobers" I just downloaded a short clip of part of a Bach Lute piece played on my 9 string Alto. You can find it in the "Our Creations" section here at Delcamp. Please let me know what you think. It's short but I think you can get the idea. I would much rather practice ansd study guitar than record so I don't spend much time recording. I'm all set up and ready to record more and with a little added inspiration I hope to do more recording soon.

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Sobers
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Location: Kolkata (Calcutta), India

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Sobers » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:13 pm

You mean uploaded right?
Alright I'll definitely let you know my opinion.

Sobers

MikFik

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by MikFik » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:32 am

Up loaded -Down loaded, I'm surprised I don't get lost finding my way back from the bathroom at night. (As a matter of fact that DID happen to me last year.) Oh well - At least I can still find my guitar!!!

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Sobers
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Location: Kolkata (Calcutta), India

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Sobers » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:50 am

Hello Mik,

I searched but couldn't find your creation.

Please give me a link here.

Sobers

P.S. When you lost your way back from the bathroom, where did you step into?

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Sobers
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Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Sobers » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:19 am

Oh! here is what about 12 string Classical Guitar or Gran Guitar...........
http://www.schrammguitars.com/gran.html

Though I'm not fully satisfied unless it is not completely nylon stringed.

Azalais did it to the highest extent as a baroque Guitar/ Vihuela.

Azalais can you please attach a photo of your instrument here in this thread?

Anyway here is what a Gran Guitar looks like
Image

Friends please attach anything new you may found

Sobers

P.S. ....Someone from Mexico posted here about Bajo Sexto. Where has that post gone?

burdell

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by burdell » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:00 am

1st post here so i hope i don't come across as a complete...anyway, I've been thinking of this myself lately and is there any reason you couldn't take a regular dreadnought guitar and put nylon strings on it? I guess one problem would be the ends but maybe you could use some ball end strings (la bella?) or somehow fashion some ball ends, maybe tieing a bunch of knots (see my original sentence!) ---do any of the regular string makes, d'addario etc offer ball end option? The other issue would probably be the string thicknesses. Do you just go with 2 sets the same of what about the idea of mixing 2 different guage sets like a d'addario standard and a light set as the tandem string? If you can get around these 2 things is there any reason a regular guitar couldn't be used?

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Sobers
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Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by Sobers » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:16 am

Hello Burdell,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your first post in this thread.
But please let us give you a formal welcome so please Introduce Yourself (tell us a bit about your origin ......... your feelings and work on Classical Guitar or any music as a broader sense ........ etc.) here, viewforum.php?f=28


Now, coming to your point ............

1) Some people use nylon strings on 'normal' guitar but Luthiers will admit that a construction of a Classical Guitar is to some extent special or abnormal you can say as the sound need to produce must have a proper acoustic balance.

2) Also you need a natural amplification and some tone colors so the use of wood (rosewood, cedar, spruce etc.) and the different types of bracing (Greg Smallman lattice bracing, Dr.Michael Kasha bracing, traditional fan struts etc.) are needed to fulfill a Classical Guitar's demand to make it complete.

3) About string compatability ........... no one will agree about making the fret board wider and wider ........ and wider ......... so the use of strings in courses is the best option I think.

Still I haven't worked on this project (I'll let you know in this thread if I start) but I have seen works of Azalais and that's fantastic. There is also a video of Azalais playing that 12 course Baroque Vihuela ........ you can see that and tell us what you feel.
Also I've seen works (videos) of Gaspar Ruiz playing 12 course baroque Vihuela (Oh! beautiful), ....... videos of Tommy Johansson ................ there are really some high standard musicians working on Renaissance instruments and that's really great .............. just to know about them, hear them playing ......... is the highest prize of this search.

There are still lots I've to learn for the use of string as the nylon string is really difficult.

Happy journey through the forum .............

Regards

Sobers

ericjs

Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by ericjs » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:41 am

There is a Spanish instrument called the archilaud, which seems to me very much in effect what a 12 string classical guitar would be. I have seen Javier Mas play it, and looks to me to be approximately the same size as a classical guitar with 12 nylon strings in 2 courses. There is also the laud, but it is a little smaller--I could be wrong but I'm seeing the archilaud as the closer match.

"Laud" is the Spanish word for what is "lute" in English, and they also use this word for the lute, however this laud and achilaud are quite different instruments from the lute and archlute, though they may well be descended from the lute. The body is flat like a guitar, not rounded like a lute, and while not exactly like a guitar in outline, it is more guitar-shaped than lute shaped: imagine the inward curve of the guitar's hourglass shape with another outward jut in the middle of it. At least this is the shape of Javier Mas' model. Or see and hear it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQylrMlUh5M

It is quite difficult to find good information about this instrument, especially with the same word being used for the archlute. It may be a regional folk instrument and less well known.

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KeMe
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Re: 12 String Classical Guitar

Post by KeMe » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:06 am

Hello Eric,
Welcome to the Delcamp forum.
Please introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum and tell us something about yourself, your interests, experiences, goals, and such.
It is good that you have joined the forum, I know that you are going to enjoy your visits.

Kay :sorride:
Music touches the heart, but playing classical guitar can lift your heart and enrich your life.

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