D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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HNLim
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by HNLim » Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:46 pm

Just wonder if they will be selling the Dynacore strings separately.
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pogmoor
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by pogmoor » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:17 pm

HNLim wrote:Just wonder if they will be selling the Dynacore strings separately.
They do already.
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markodarko
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by markodarko » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:04 pm

Peterson2 wrote:you will hear the difference soon, its just takes a little bit of time
It does not help your argument to be condescending.

Clearly for yourself the guitar's sound must fall into either "right or wrong". That's your prerogative. There is no grey area or possibility that what others experience in terms of sound can possibly be different to yours. Carbon is either right or it's wrong, and you have made it abundantly clear that it's wrong in your opinion - and that's fine. As others have pointed out you are more than entitled to your opinion over such a subjective thing.

Let's not forget that we are not talking of absolutes here. This is not mathematics. There is no right or wrong when we concern ourselves with matters of taste. I myself cannot stand "chart music" (speaking in generalities) and in my opinion it's not even music at all, however millions of people would disagree with that point of view so I must concede that others must hear and get things from that music that I cannot - not the other way around. Not that they cannot see how unfulfilling those simplistic repetitive chord changes are or how mind-numbingly bland the lyrics are and that they need to come to their senses. Chart music is just not for me, that's all. But it is for others. That's their choice.

I myself have never tried carbon strings but that's not to say that I won't, and that's not to say that I won't like them. I may very well like them. I may not. I may very well side with you, but please be assured that if I do like them it won't be because there is anything wrong with my ears.
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by Polifemo de Oro » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:51 pm

What a thread!

Viva la Revolución, Peterson2!!! :lol:

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Moje
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by Moje » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:21 pm

My 3 favorite strings happen to be carbon (D'addario), nylon (D'addario), and carbon-nylon blend (Dogal.) I think the EJ46FF are my favorites on my particular guitar, we'll see. But I really came here to type out an anecdote.

Gather 'round, wee ones, and I'll tell you a story.
Once, long ago, a friend wanted to buy a really nice steel-string. Not wanting to go about it half-way, he bought rather a lot of high-end guitars on approval . . . so many that one management guy here in Vancouver got a call from HQ back east congratulating him on the sales, but he hadn't sold any of these guitars, it was just this one guy and a credit card. (My friend is no longer welcome at that particular location, go figure.)

Anyway we got together with a mutual friend and had a massive shootout with the new guitars as well as our own, ranging from my Yamaha LL16 (about $900 new, but an abnormally good guitar for the money) to our mutual friend's Martin Marquis ($4500 list, I think he paid $3800, absolutely the best steel-string I've ever played.) I don't recall exactly but there were multiple Larrivees, Martins and Taylors everywhere.

So we spent an evening thusly: one guy (the prospective buyer) on the couch with a blindfold (well an imaginary blindfold, we were on the honor system,) me in a chair playing the same short riff on every guitar ("Nutshell" from AIC) and a third guy passing me guitars and keeping notes.

It was a humbling experience . . . I mean the way guitarists talk you'd think we could pick out a cedar top or mahogany B&S on a landing strip a mile away, but we can't. There are just too many variables. Sometimes I knew which guitar I was playing (I didn't look either) but not always. My buddy has good ears and the differences are real, he did much better than chance, but the main tool we use to distinguish one guitar from another is our eyes. He could usually tell which was which if they were in pairs, but it would sometimes take a couple of tries. I will say the guitars had the characteristics we thought they did, and he wound up buying the guitar he'd been thinking of (a Martin HD-28) but that certainty, the idea that minor differences are completely obvious, gets stripped away pretty quickly in a situation like that.

Verily I say to you, people around here would be a lot less opinionated if we were stuck using only our ears. :lol:
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by Polifemo de Oro » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:54 pm

It was a humbling experience . . . I mean the way guitarists talk you'd think we could pick out a cedar top or mahogany B&S on a landing strip a mile away, but we can't. There are just too many variables. Sometimes I knew which guitar I was playing (I didn't look either) but not always. My buddy has good ears and the differences are real, he did much better than chance, but the main tool we use to distinguish one guitar from another is our eyes. He could usually tell which was which if they were in pairs, but it would sometimes take a couple of tries. I will say the guitars had the characteristics we thought they did, and he wound up buying the guitar he'd been thinking of (a Martin HD-28) but that certainty, the idea that minor differences are completely obvious, gets stripped away pretty quickly in a situation like that.

Verily I say to you, people around here would be a lot less opinionated if we were stuck using only our ears. :lol:
Amen to that, brother! :D

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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by markodarko » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:10 pm

markodarko wrote:I myself have never tried carbon strings but that's not to say that I won't, and that's not to say that I won't like them. I may very well like them. I may not. I may very well side with you, but please be assured that if I do like them it won't be because there is anything wrong with my ears.
Pah ha ha! Well, there may be nothing wrong with my ears but there's certainly something wrong with my knowledge! Turns out I HAVE tried carbon strings seeing as I've just found out that the Savarez 500ARJ strings I've been using for the last few months are, erm, carbon, as it turns out. :lol: Who knew? Not me.

For some reason I thought that carbon strings would be black? :roll:

Oops.

Well, In which case I'd like to change my previous statement to...

"I myself have never tried nylon strings but that's not to say that I won't, and that's not to say that I won't like them. I may very well like them. I may not. I may very well side with you, but please be assured that if I do like them it won't be because there is anything wrong with my ears - just my mind. And the voices."

:mrgreen:
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

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Moje
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by Moje » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:23 am

markodarko wrote: For some reason I thought that carbon strings would be black?
Arrr, 'tis a reasonable assumption to be sure. I mean carbon (as in "carbon-copy") is black, but carbon strings aren't made of carbon any more than titanium strings are made of, well, titanium.

As carbons go, Alliance are a tad on the harsh side (at least on my guitars, there are bound to be instruments out there in need of a boost in that particular area.)

For pure carbons I like the D'addarios, but Petermc61 kindly clued me in to Dogal Diamante trebles which frankly blew my mind. They're a nylon/carbon blend and have what I like about carbons (they settle in after hours rather than days, tons of punch) but they're very sweet, much like good nylons. Bonus: their "strong tension" (and "extra-strong," which actually are the exact same strings with a different label) have the same tension as a set of D'addario normals. I don't know how they do it, and I wish they'd offer an "extra strong" that was actually a different tension than "strong," but trust me. ; )
2014 Michael Thames 650mm Cedar & IRW
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HNLim
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by HNLim » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:34 am

I think for acoustic guitar, the difference is not as obvious as classical guitar. The other thing is the difference is more obvious in a relatively quiet environment.

You also have to note that Spruce guitar unlike Cedar guitar needs constant affection and it gets better with age as you embrace it. Cedar guitar on the other hand remains almost the same as it ages.
1978 Yamaha GC30A-S/BRW
2012 Esteve Adalid-S/BRW
2014 Sen #5-S/BRW
2016 HNLim-S/BRW
1974 S.Yairi 950-S/BRW-0-string-convert 2015
2017 HN Lim-14-string-S/BRW
HN Lim 13-string-S/NEW-WIP
1974 S.Yairi 800-Retired

ALL ARE FOR SALE IF PRICE IS RIGHT

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tubeman
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by tubeman » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:07 am

I've had a strong aversion to carbon strings for a long time, but I thought I'd give these strings a shot and they aren't bad at all! I hear a little metallic edge in the E string, but it's far less pronounced than in Savarez, Gali, or Hannabach. I'm not too wild about the Dynacore basses though: they seem a little dull.
Greg Byers 2016 cedar/Ind
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by tubeman » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:29 am

My 1st string broke today, so that's it for me! I'm sticking with Augustine Imperials and Savarez Cantiga basses.
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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by mando48 » Mon May 01, 2017 2:00 pm

They sound ok, but they kept breaking on me!

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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by ben etow » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:56 pm

I've just put a B from the EJ45FF set and it feels and sounds like a (HT???) Savarez Alliance (I've been using for moreless 20 years) to me (just like the HT Pyramid).
AND it has the very same intonation problem as the Alliance... So I won't use them anymore either.

Could anyone confirm that both Pyramid and D'addario are just selling Savarez carbs in their sets?

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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:37 pm

To add my 3 cents to the debate:
Mostly discussing fluorocarbon means we're discussing basically the treble side of the guitar. Now, the trebles are usually the weaker part of the guitar, if it's not a really good guitar; it's easier to obtain rich basses than it is with trebles.

That's why fluorocarbon strings can benefit treble-weak guitars, and probably also the reason why many factory-made guitars are sold fited with fluorocarbons these days.

Without wanting to generalize here's how it's for me: The e-1 string works practically never as carbon string form me, on any guitar I own. The only e-1 string I could possibly tolerate if I needed a very briliant e-1 would be a Seaguar Premier 0.62mm leader fishing line (which also has a good intonation and lifetime). Recently I also tried Luthier 30 carbon trebles and they are also less sharp sounding than many others, but have bad intonation.

Carbon b-2 can have very sweet tone, depends on guitar and how I like it at that moment, I wouldn't generally say NO.

Carbon g-3 is almost a must for me, it's sounding better (to my ears !!) than any nylon g I know of on any guitar.

So at the moment mostly I enjoy playing Savarez Cantiga NT Creative, which has a carbon g and nylon new crystal b and e. But I might go back to Augustine Imperials b and e, which mostly turn out to be the best sounding trebles on most of my guitars - though I also quite like Aquila Nylgut Alabastro (polished), was it not for their frequent intonation problems (which are funnily less on my flamenco guitars, maybe because the very low action).

I can also confirm in my experience that nylon strings allow for a greater dynamic range than carbon. Carbon seems louder when playing soft, but doesn't follow increased force that much (that could be because maybe they need a different technique?).

Another experience with carbon is that the sharpness or what I would call 'metallic' character (especially for e-1) comes through for me as a player and in close miked recordings more than when lisstening to a player from a distance. In rooms they seem to compensate the energy dissipation of high frequencies better and thus my be even adequate for playing in big halls.

In any case I heard from my friend and lutier Sascha Nowak that many performing players are using fluorocarbon trebles for that reason, althogh his guitars have plent of harmonics and are not at all lacking trebles, not the least bit...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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Re: D'Addario Pro Arte Carbon EJ45FF

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:24 am

PeterMC61 got me turned on to the Dogal Diamante trebles. The 1st string was a little pingy at first, but after a few days it settled down. The G sounds a lot like regular nylon, just without the tubby. They are very clear sounding and they really aren't stiff feeling, we'll the 1st string was a little stiff at first. I either got used to the feel or it changed as I don't notice that any more.

The balance between the trebles and the basses (in this case Cantiga) is quite nice. The overall volume is more balanced between high and low. The previous carbon strings I had used were the Savarez Alliance, which were rather cold and sterile sounding. The hybrid Diamante trebles have a certain degree of sweetness to them in addition to being clear sounding. I will try the D'Addario after these are ready to be replaced just because I have never tried them. I know they will be less expensive.

So far the Diamante seem to be the best of both worlds. The G string would make a good replacement for the Ramirez or Alliance 3rd that many people use.

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