Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Choice of classical guitar strings and technical issues connected with their use.
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Tonyyyyy
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by Tonyyyyy » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:53 am

Mimmo2us wrote:well, now a few things about the sound absorbition.
higher the frequencies higher the absorbition. This is the rule.
This why in an orchestra there are many violins and few doublebasses. In the middle of the orchestra it is hard to hear the doublebasses because violins is the king here: in other world you hear violins mostly. But when you go far from the orchestra, in the middle of the concert hall, everything change. you hear a well balanced sound between high and low frequencies.
The very bass frequencies has a very very few absorbtions while the higher frequencies of the violins drops.
same with guitar strings. nylon produce a warm sound while fluocarbon strings are very brilliant. If you hear the guitar very close it is evident that the fluocarbon strings are better in matter of power.
But if you hear the same guitar with the same strings at 10 mt far you can hear am unbalanced sound: basses are far over the trebles that are weaker. Instead, if you have nylon treble strings the balance is much more better. Because nylon strings produces less higher frequencies ( Overtones) in the composition of their sound. The projection is better.
My english is not very good, however, I hope that things are clear anyway
Mimmo
thanks very clear. I hadnt thought of it like that

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by Tonyyyyy » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:04 am

Michael.N. wrote:What Mimmo states regarding differing sound perception (dependent on listening position) is absolutely true. We then have to decide on who we are trying to please. For the majority that will be themselves i.e. the player.
Another variable (arguably) is if you have a soundport .The player may hear a little more of what the listener hears. But still doesnt have the distance factor.

And yes - for most of us non-performers, 99% of the time we are playing to please ourselves. anyone listening will rarely be more than a metre or two away

dilettante1000
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by dilettante1000 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:16 am

Michael.N. wrote:What Mimmo states regarding differing sound perception (dependent on listening position) is absolutely true. We then have to decide on who we are trying to please. For the majority that will be themselves i.e. the player.
This, of course, leads down numerous paths. One obvious example is the 'best guitar' question. On the assumption that the vast majority of us will not be professional players, though some small number may perform in public on occasions, for most of us, the playing is a personal experience - yet we so often aspire to owning the same guitars as the Pros. Same goes for golf. We buy into the idea that a better guitar will make us a better player (Huh!).

So it's about the tools for the job. And about the developing ear and aspiration to a style or beauty, or facility, of playing. Which is why a plethora of choice is a good thing.

At the moment, still developing all of the above, but with some experience, the Aquila strings I have tried fit into certain roles especially well, and into others perhaps less well than the alternatives. To me, the Alabastro strings are not ideal for the beginner because of the slightly higher tensions that make them work at their best. For someone switching from acoustic guitar, though, this is less of an issue, since steel string tensions are generally considerably higher; in fact, it may offer some small advantage.

One suggestion I would make is that, after some learning, an intermediate student could try switching from their 'standard' strings on their 'student' guitar and put on a set of these. Bad news for guitar shops - my experience has been that they lifted the sound of my 15 year old spruce-top so well that I find myself choosing to play it alongside my newer, more expensive 'studio' guitar, especially on certain pieces where the upper registers form a key part, such as Tarrega's 'Lagrima' or his early preludes - they really shine performing these pieces.

Back to the point - I agree, knowing why we are playing and who our 'audience' is should inform our choices about equipment and materials.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by Michael.N. » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:38 am

Regarding soundports. I tried an experimental guitar with a soundport and I used Al Carruths idea of using a bung to close or open it. After several weeks my conclusion was that it does alter the players perception but I had to place my ear fairly close to the actual port to hear the effect. I didn't hear any difference with the head placed in a normal playing position. Initially the port had a small diameter and I incrementally increased that diameter every few days.
The result of the port was simply too marginal for me to continue to pursue it as a construction feature. That was my experience. Other makers/players come to a different conclusion.
I also compared it to playing in a lively room (a tiled bathroom!) which obviously gives a lot of feedback to the player. Rather obvious but the room itself can have a very large effect, both for the player and the audience.

BTW. Are the Alabastro a polished version of new Nylgut or is it a different material/composition?
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dilettante1000
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by dilettante1000 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:26 pm

As described, 'supernylgut' is a newer material, different to polished new nylgut, but at least one person on this page can confirm this for certain.

On hearing and playing: a simple trick for you: sit in front of a window with the curtains closed, about five or six feet away. Listen to the sound your guitar is making to your ear. Then do the same in front of a largely blank wall. Kitchens can be good places to get feedback, so long as there is no cooking in progress.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by Michael.N. » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:55 pm

Supernylgut is new to me. I'm obviously behind the times. I remember nylgut, nylgut polished and new nylgut. It's hard to keep up.
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by dilettante1000 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:14 pm

"Put your money where your mouth is", they say. So I just ordered some more sets direct.

Might be useful for some of you to know that there's a special on the Aquila site right now. What I paid direct for 3 sets & postage was the same as buying 2 sets from a well-known online direct mail company. I wouldn't even have now if they hadn't been out of stock.

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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by dilettante1000 » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:15 pm

Michael.N. wrote:Supernylgut is new to me. I'm obviously behind the times. I remember nylgut, nylgut polished and new nylgut. It's hard to keep up.
I can't tell you if it's new tech or fresh marketing, but I imagine its the latter; you should ask mimmo2us.

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petermc61
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by petermc61 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:15 am

Mimmo

I like the Supernulgut trebles, but I am having some intonation problems with the first G string I installed (low tension set).

I am interested to know whether it's characteristics (density, stiffness, tension etc) are more like nylon than carbon. Do you have some data that you can share with us for the different tension Supernylgut trebles? This will be helpful in evaluating how good a replacement intonation-wise they will be for other strings.

Regards
Peter

es335
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by es335 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 7:14 am

Peter, would you mind to give an indication on the actual tension, that I experienced a bit on the high side for the previous versions, which had only been available in high and normal tension.

BTW somehow I couldn't find the tension charts on Aquila's new website any more?! My mistake or have they been removed? :?

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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by dilettante1000 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:08 am

es335 wrote:Peter, would you mind to give an indication on the actual tension, that I experienced a bit on the high side for the previous versions, which had only been available in high and normal tension.

BTW somehow I couldn't find the tension charts on Aquila's new website any more?! My mistake or have they been removed? :?
Excuse my presumption.

The tensions are on the product pages but you need to scroll down.

Alabastro light have tensions similar to Alliance Cantiga normals, the Alabastro normal is like AC high tension.

Rubino have similar tensions to Alabastro high, and they are quite high compared with most other strings: top E is 9.6kg, combined is around 48kg, which is 105 lbs or so.v Alabastro lights come in at 42.2kg, around 93lbs. The Savarez normals are 39,9 kg, around 88lbs.

For comparison, the lightest pressure steel set I could find anywhere (can't remember which one) came in at around 130 lbs pressure, with the average being 150-180 lbs.

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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by Mimmo2us » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:32 am

Hi Peter, sorry if I do not answer faster. I am so busy with this job and cannot be in the forum every day.
However here are the answers:
- the Nylgut density is 1.30; musical Nylon (polyammide 6-12) 1.08, PVDF ( musicians call it Carbon but it is not right) is 1.78
so Nylgut is more or less inbetween.
The elastic modulus of Nylgut is similar to Nylon. i. e. 2600-2400 Mpa (ISO 527). the moisture absorbition is 20 times less than Nylon so it is better under high moisture/rainy days.
Tensions: they are all in our webpage; however nothing of strange. I mean that the so called 'Normal tension is same' of a normal Hannabach guitar tension set.
to verify if is the string that have no good intonation you must reverse it: if it is the strings a +10 cents must became -10 cents. If things do not change the problem is on the fretboard or on the bridge's saddle inclination that was trimered on Nylon strings that are less elastic.
This mean that when you push the string on the fret the frequency raise more on nylon than on Nylgut.
Mimmo

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petermc61
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by petermc61 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:42 am

Mimmo2us wrote:Hi Peter, sorry if I do not answer faster. I am so busy with this job and cannot be in the forum every day.

<cut>

to verify if is the string that have no good intonation you must reverse it: if it is the strings a +10 cents must became -10 cents. If things do not change the problem is on the fretboard or on the bridge's saddle inclination that was trimered on Nylon strings that are less elastic.
This mean that when you push the string on the fret the frequency raise more on nylon than on Nylgut.
Mimmo
Hi Mimmo

Thanks - your reply is quick enough. :-)

I reversed the string and it went from being over 10c sharp (for an in tune open g) at the 7th fret and close to 15c sharp at the 12th fret, to the almost exact opposite flat in the other direction. So I guess I got a bad string. I bought two sets of low tension Alabastro so I will take the G string from the other set and try it. Hopefully that works. I really like the sound of this G so hopefully the other one works.

Regards
Peter

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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by petermc61 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:07 pm

Hi Mimmo

Just changed to my spare string. The intonation seems perfect on tuning it up. It is late at night in Australia so I will check it again in the morning to make sure it has not changed as it stretched out.

Unfortunately now I will have to get a replacement string to use the other set. I am assuming your resellers will replace it readily.

Regards
Peter

es335
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Re: Aquila Alabastro any fans?

Post by es335 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:52 am

dilettante1000 wrote:... The tensions are on the product pages but you need to scroll down ...
Oh, how embarrasssing and thanks for pointing this out! :oops:

Rubino and Granato product pages didn't offer this data, so I didn't expect to find it on the other pages. :?

Quite high in tension on paper but the actual feel might be different!?

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