Building speed discovery

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
Forum rules
IV Laws governing the quotation/citation of music


For discussion of studies, scales, arpeggios and theory.
ipso facto
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:29 pm

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by ipso facto » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:18 pm

markodarko wrote:Here you go :mrgreen: :
Good work!

Johnny Geudel
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:23 pm
Location: Antwerp-Belgium

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by Johnny Geudel » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:42 pm

Congratulations markodarko.
Posting such videos is the only way to avoid endless speculation and misunderstandings.
Bravo again.

guit-box
Posts: 943
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:57 am

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by guit-box » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:48 pm

Johnny Geudel wrote:Congratulations markodarko.
Posting such videos is the only way to avoid endless speculation and misunderstandings.
Bravo again.
Totally agree, it removes much confusion and is most productive. I'd say that's a very impressive speed for only 3 months work.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

Robbie Flamerock
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:24 am

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by Robbie Flamerock » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:01 pm

Once again, clarifications lead to better understandings of what is true: how long have you played the guitar for?

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by guitarrista » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:29 pm

markodarko wrote:
guit-box wrote:I'd definitely like to see that video if you are offering to share it.
Here you go :mrgreen: :
Nice! And of course you are into cinematography, so your video is amazing visually too :-)

Since we are sharing today, here's my quick video at 176bpm. I do 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x with left hand fretting, and at the end a fretted run at 4x176 to show syncing. Sorry about not being perfectly on tempo throughout - I can't actually hear the metronome well while playing the way I did the setup. I can go faster but wanted to be in a comfortable zone for the recording. Also, this is a bit beyond speed bursts in terms of duration.


Youtube

Also, didn't do a proper warmup, a quick single take, crappy pocket camera, etc, etc. the usual excuses. This is on my factory flamenco guitar (Almansa 447), not the Anselmo Solar Gonzalez.
Last edited by guitarrista on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Johnny Geudel
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:23 pm
Location: Antwerp-Belgium

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by Johnny Geudel » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:50 pm

Congratulations guitarista.
And very impressive.

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by guitarrista » Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:27 pm

Johnny Geudel wrote:Congratulations guitarista.
And very impressive.
Thank you, sir! Appreciate the kind words; kind of scary to put out there one's first video :)
Last edited by guitarrista on Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Johnny Geudel
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:23 pm
Location: Antwerp-Belgium

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by Johnny Geudel » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:00 pm

Congratulations to Tom Poore also (I had missed his second video).
These three have set a new standard in technical discussions, the one recommended by Prof. Jean-François Delcamps himself.
May it last.

User avatar
guitarrista
Posts: 784
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:00 am
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by guitarrista » Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:54 pm

guit-box wrote: This guy is doing 6 notes per click at 120, which is equivalent to about 1/16th notes at 160 BPM. It seems pretty close to as fast as I've ever heard, or would ever need. (120 BPM x 1.333) since it would be 1/3rd faster = about 160 BPM
No, 6x120 = 4x180; it is 180 bpm, not 160; the proper ratio to use is 6/4 which is 1.5 i.e. it is 50% faster (times 120 = 180). What I do these days to avoid confusion is compute the total number of strokes per minute first, then divide by the alternative number of strokes per click to get the BPM equivalent.

Example: 6 notes per click at 120 bpm means 720 notes/min. 720/4 = 180 bpm rate if 4 notes per click.

Another example: let's say I am doing a burst, at double the 6 notes per click at 76 bpm, so that's a rate of 12 per click at 76 bpm. This means 912 notes/min. 912/4 = 228 bpm rate if 4 notes per click.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

User avatar
markodarko
Posts: 1879
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:41 pm
Location: Leyenda-On-Sea

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by markodarko » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:12 pm

Thanks everyone for your kind words, and thanks @guitarrista for the video. Excellent stuff!

In the interests of transparency, here's what I originally meant about the 5-note speed bursts at 170bpm across strings, if anyone's interested:


Youtube


I can play it less sloppy than this but I recorded this at the end of my speed exercises and so wasn't as fresh as I could be (plus a boat-load of other excuses) :mrgreen:. Still, you get the picture.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

mmapag
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: Philadelphia Area

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by mmapag » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:19 pm

lagartija wrote:
ipso facto wrote:
kmurdick wrote:A couple of things, git-box. When I talk about "raw speed" I mean the ability to alternate free stroke on one string at around 140 mm (four notes to the click) without fatigue... this ability to play at 140 mm comes very early in the study of the right hand and is probably a necessary step in developing rapid scales. IMO, bursts should not be practiced until the ability to alternate rapidly on one string is in place.
Am I reading this right - you mean 4 notes per click, 140 clicks per minute with two alternating fingers? Pretty fast! How do you get up to that level without bursts? Can't help wondering what a burst would look like if that was just the baseline speed... 8 notes per click, 140 clicks per minute? I can't get anywhere near that!
I am not an advanced player, nor am I a particularly fast player. However, in my recent practice sessions, I can alternate im with metronome set at 1/4 note=120, 1/16 notes (reliably) for 4 beats and a bit less reliably for 6 beats. The bursts of speed are followed by a rest beat (or two) to check in with the feeling of total release of the fingers and for me, the outer edge of the hand where I show the first sign of unreleased tension. This is the working area at the moment. I started at 1/4=96 for one beat at 1/16s about a month ago. I don't spend more than about 6-8 minutes most days doing this. It is to build up the stamina to play particular pieces that I like that have scale passages that will require moderate speed. I haven't even started doing the bursts with the left. Just the right on an open string. It is a long term project.
Lagartija,
Is this while playing a scale or on an open string? I am working on speed right now to better play a couple of sections of An Idea by Brouwer.
'13 Esteve 7 SM
'75 Takamine 132 S
'99 G.V. Rubio Estudio, Cedar, Palo Escrito

User avatar
lagartija
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9877
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Western Massachusetts, USA

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by lagartija » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:13 pm

mmapag wrote:
lagartija wrote:
ipso facto wrote: Am I reading this right - you mean 4 notes per click, 140 clicks per minute with two alternating fingers? Pretty fast! How do you get up to that level without bursts? Can't help wondering what a burst would look like if that was just the baseline speed... 8 notes per click, 140 clicks per minute? I can't get anywhere near that!
I am not an advanced player, nor am I a particularly fast player. However, in my recent practice sessions, I can alternate im with metronome set at 1/4 note=120, 1/16 notes (reliably) for 4 beats and a bit less reliably for 6 beats. The bursts of speed are followed by a rest beat (or two) to check in with the feeling of total release of the fingers and for me, the outer edge of the hand where I show the first sign of unreleased tension. This is the working area at the moment. I started at 1/4=96 for one beat at 1/16s about a month ago. I don't spend more than about 6-8 minutes most days doing this. It is to build up the stamina to play particular pieces that I like that have scale passages that will require moderate speed. I haven't even started doing the bursts with the left. Just the right on an open string. It is a long term project.
Lagartija,
Is this while playing a scale or on an open string? I am working on speed right now to better play a couple of sections of An Idea by Brouwer.
Just an open string. I am developing the right hand speed. I do some synchronicity/speed work, but of course, it isn't at my top speed with just the right.
When the sun shines, bask.
__/^^^^^o>
Classical Guitar forever!

mmapag
Posts: 1141
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: Philadelphia Area

Re: Building speed discovery

Post by mmapag » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:59 pm

I tried this and I break down after about about 3 beats at 1/4=90. I can see how it will help in short does every day. Thanks! I also tried Marko's going up and down the strings as exhibited in his videos and this taught me a lot about efficiency of movement. At first I was catching random strings higher or lower as my movements were too large. I tightened them down and it helped considerable. Thanks to you also Marko!
'13 Esteve 7 SM
'75 Takamine 132 S
'99 G.V. Rubio Estudio, Cedar, Palo Escrito

Return to “Classical Guitar technique”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], davekear and 10 guests