How fast is a fast scale?

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Adam
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby Adam » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:36 pm

markodarko wrote:That's most interesting because my IM and IA are pretty much identical in speed, it's the AM that's slower for me.


Same here, MA is slowest. Ironically, I feel like I get a stronger, more solid tone with MA.

Something else I've noticed alternating IM away from the guitar feels natural, but MA feels really awkward. I can do it much better with the guitar in my hands.

FJ25

Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby FJ25 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:50 pm

markodarko wrote:
Mark Featherstone wrote:if I'm aiming for 140 bpm, 4 notes per beat, should I be practicing all of these: i-m, m-i, m-a, a-m, i-a, a-i?


You should definitely be practicing all finger combinations as it'll aid to free up your RH...

I understand your logic but life is short, practice time is limited, and at some point you have to prioritize. My slowest combination is am. At the moment it is a bit ragged at 100 but my plan is just to get it solid at that speed. That should give me enough freedom, no? I can then devote my speed time to the most useful combination(s). I may be wrong but at the moment it seems to be more useful to be able to do all combinations at 100 and one at 180, than all at 150.

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markodarko
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby markodarko » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:08 pm

FJ25 wrote:I understand your logic but life is short, practice time is limited, and at some point you have to prioritize. My slowest combination is am. At the moment it is a bit ragged at 100 but my plan is just to get it solid at that speed. That should give me enough freedom, no?


I see where you're coming from but don't forget that you use AM for arpeggios and tremolo so freeing up all the fingers on your RH through exercises will benefit many areas of your playing.

Currently my AM synchronised burst speed (that is to say: playing 16th notes in bursts with both left and right hand fingers) is 148bpm and IM 171bpm, so quite a big difference, however I've found that increasing my AM speed has helped the fluidity of my hand and I'm sure contributes to my IM speed by proxy.

You don't need to spend an age on the exercises, just 5 minutes per day will be better than none. :)
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robert e
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby robert e » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:44 am

Mark Featherstone wrote:Obviously, i-m and m-i are easiest, and i-a and a-i are the most difficult.

Speak for yourself! For me, it's the other way 'round.

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Mark Featherstone
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby Mark Featherstone » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:21 am

Michael.N. wrote:If you can get a-m at 140 BPM I think it's safe to say that you are doing extremely well.

Sorry, I was misleading there. I can't do 140 bpm at 4 clicks. Only at 2 clicks. Any faster and I lose accuracy. Lots of work to do!
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Mark Featherstone
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby Mark Featherstone » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:16 am

markodarko wrote:That's most interesting because my IM and IA are pretty much identical in speed, it's the AM that's slower for me.

Yeah, I've gone back to look at this. I think that my problem with i-a is more that I find it a little awkward to position my fingers/hand and that interferes with accuracy. It's probably true that my a-m combination is slowest.
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djajasoekarta
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby djajasoekarta » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:43 am

FJ25 wrote:life is short, practice time is limited, and at some point you have to prioritize


I agree with you. Better use your time to explore the repertoire and do exercise from your chosen pieces. Lot's of excellent stuff that doesn't require you to play scale at 120 BPM or even 100. Takemitsu for example
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Mark Featherstone
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby Mark Featherstone » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:21 am

djajasoekarta wrote:
FJ25 wrote:life is short, practice time is limited, and at some point you have to prioritize


I agree with you. Better use your time to explore the repertoire and do exercise from your chosen pieces. Lot's of excellent stuff that doesn't require you to play scale at 120 BPM or even 100. Takemitsu for example

Sure, I understand. My interest in improving my speed is not for speed's sake, but rather because I suspect that achieving faster speeds will allow me to play with greater mastery at slower speeds too. I am not trying to contradict the wise advice which says that you learn to play fast by playing slow. But I am saying that there is a certain level of mastery which could have a positive effect on all one's playing that can only be achieved by actually learning to play fast. My objective is not to burn up the strings, but to improve my playing for any piece of repertoire.
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djajasoekarta
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby djajasoekarta » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:14 am

Mark, sure the ability to play either fast or slow will enable one to have lots of choice in choosing repertoire. Back to your previous question, the ability to execute technical passage with all physical (in this case rh fingers) combination sure is an excellent start to mastery.

But I'm speaking as an amateur who barely have time to practice. It's almost impossible for me and I believe the majority of us in here to make a dedicated practice to hone technical ability for every physical possibilities/combination. I prefer to use my time to listen a music, choose my own prefered music and finally make an exercise from that, not reversed.

Anyway, I think there's infinite possiblities in composition, so indulging myself in separate exercise like Slurs, scales or arpeggios doesn't guarantee that I wouldn't face many obstacles in future, even if I've already break to virtuosic level IMHO. I still prefer to choose my repertoire first :)
'The woolen cloth of his suit made me question the value of Chinese silks. His fountain pen made me ashamed of my writing brushes and Chinese writing paper' - Puyi

'I don't write music to be difficult, only to be more like itself' - Harrison Birtwistle

2handband
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby 2handband » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:43 pm

With a pick I can do 16ths at 180 bpm sustained and over 200 in short bursts. I'm fairly certain I will never achieve that with my fingers.

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markodarko
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby markodarko » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:27 pm

Mark Featherstone wrote:My interest in improving my speed is not for speed's sake, but rather because I suspect that achieving faster speeds will allow me to play with greater mastery at slower speeds


Boom! You got it, girlfriend. Ahem, I mean - righteous dude, your logic is like, shweeeeet.

This has been my motivation with regards to gaining speed since the beginning. Not of time, obviously, there was no double-tops back during the Big Bang. We had to make do with singularity tops. But I digress...
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guitarrista
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby guitarrista » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:51 am

2handband wrote:With a pick I can do 16ths at 180 bpm sustained and over 200 in short bursts. I'm fairly certain I will never achieve that with my fingers.


Are you are referring, with a pick, to a multi-string scale run, or do you mean 4x200 on a single string?
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2handband
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby 2handband » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:27 pm

That's multi string. On one string would probably be faster because going cross string your bottleneck is always your picking hand. Fast cross string picking is the hardest all rock guitar mechanics to master.

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markodarko
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby markodarko » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:54 pm

2handband wrote:That's multi string.


If that's with your left hand playing in sync too, then that's mightily impressive, sir.
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2handband
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Re: How fast is a fast scale?

Postby 2handband » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:13 pm

markodarko wrote:
2handband wrote:That's multi string.


If that's with your left hand playing in sync too, then that's mightily impressive, sir.


Thanks. Once again that's short bursts... I can't sustain it.


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