"Plectrodedo" technique

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Goose997
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"Plectrodedo" technique

Postby Goose997 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:13 pm

I saw this on Youtube today, Carlos Reyes with his "plectrodedo" technique. Unfortunately most of the videos are of insufficient quality to see the finger movement. Search for 'Introducción al estudio Nro 2 del Plectrodedo "Síntesis Nro 2"', there you can see the technique.

What do you think?
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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby RobMacKillop » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:25 pm

Are you talking about the technique used by Mudarra and others of the Renaissance period, of using the index finger as if it were a plectrum? Mudarra used it on scale runs, speed bursts. It features in his beginners' pieces, but not in his more advanced works. I've also seen a picture of a lute player with a pick of sorts attached to his index finger. And then there is that comment about Francesco da Milano having silver thimbles on his fingers, producing a beautiful tone.

If you're not talking about all that, I apologise! :-)

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby Goose997 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:27 pm

He seems to be using the finger like a plectrum, i.e. striking it on the up and down stroke. Unfortunately the videos are quite bad, so I could also first not figure out what he is doing.
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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby Ramon Amira » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:52 pm

Some years ago I saw a video of someone using this technique, who was extremely good at it. Don't remember his name, but I recall it being quite impressive. I think he also did a tremolo the way a mandolin player plays tremolo with a pick.

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby RobMacKillop » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:57 pm

Then it is nothing new - see my earlier references. The Portuguese guitar players have a similar technique.

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby pogmoor » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:14 pm

I think the technique is more usually referred to as 'dedillo' see: http://ralphmaier.com/dedillo.html
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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby Ramon Amira » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:43 pm

pogmoor wrote:I think the technique is more usually referred to as 'dedillo' see: http://ralphmaier.com/dedillo.html


"Dedillo" is the correct term, though it sounds vaguely erotic. :D

The author of that article has lots of videos on You Tube, where he uses the technique.

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby musikai » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:46 pm

The difference of Carlos Reyes "plectrodedo" technique to Dedillo seems to me that while Dedillo is played with i, Carlos also uses the other fingers for that.

Another great guitar player that has developed some special 1-string-strumming-"tremolo" techniques is Remi Boucher. It looks like he uses the thumb in some places.
Russian Dance

Youtube


One of the most impressive guitar performances with use of such tremolo techniques is Remi Bouchers 2nd Movement of Concierto de Aranjuez as Solo Guitar Version (with the whole orchestra!!!!)

Youtube


Now I see that meanwhile there are a lot more videos of Remi Boucher on youtube. "Chinese Butterfly" here starting at minute 21 uses a lot of "Dedillo"-Techniques with different fingers and also has some new techniques:

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby 3Sunny3 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:21 pm

Sometimes we talk about a technique describing it just what we see when someone is playing the guitar, but a guitar technique is not only what You get to see there are a lot key information that sometimes even neither the guitar player nor the viewer can capture because it's necessary to have other kind of knowledges.The kinetic engrams aren't the same on Dimitris Kotronakis, Angel Navarro, Carlos Reyes and the Dedillo...what we see here are different ways to use the fingers like a plectrum. Each technique has a set of characteristics some of which can be seen and others we can not detects by simple sight.
The best technique is that which is easier to apply with less energy, high velocity and good sound in order we can get the best musical interpretation.These techniques which use the fingers as a plectrum have produced good results to those like Paco de Lucía when he had to play some high speed parts like in Entre dos aguas, Soleá, etc. almost impossible to play with the regular technique only pulling the Strings.
I think that we have to check these techniques by asking or searching with the authors of them before we talk about them and be open mind.
If you want to know about the plectrodedo Carlos Reyes wrote a book about the plectrodedo where you can find the scientist bases of this technique which l consider is a high yield guitar technique.

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby Bill B » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:43 pm

The first time I saw anyone use dedillo was in a movie about a dancer who wanted to learn flamenco dancing styles. I don't remember the name of the movie. It was a comedy as I recall. There was a close up of a guitarist using tis technique. I thought it was a joke. the sound was great, but I didn't think that what they showed was possible. I have since learned better. Its a very interesting technique that I have rarely used, But I am accompanying a choir in a few weeks in a piece called "the rune of hospitality" where this seems to be the only way to tremolo on the first two strings at one point. I intend to find some solo works to use it on. I really like it.
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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby Djibzs » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:27 am

Remi boucher is quite impressive... Years of practice, no? (i'm trying it now with my silent... ha-ha-ha)
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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby 3Sunny3 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:07 am

My dear colleagues, the Plectrodedo book is now on sale via Amazon. It
is in Spanish but we are working on an English version. Please note
that all things considered, techniques such as dedillo and alzapua are
mentioned in the book and they are observed as part of the broader
Plectrodedo school. Guitarra theorists, players and composers who have
worked with the dedillo technique are mentioned (such as Narvaez,
Hebert Vázquez, Yamashita, Rak, Boucher, Maier, etc).
:D

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby 3Sunny3 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:34 pm

El plectrodedo no es una técnica de un dedo, en el plectrodedo se utilizan los dedos medio, índice, y pulgar con funciones especificas además no es una técnica solitaria es una herramienta técnica disponible que se puede combinar con todas las té nicas dentro del arsenal técnico para tocar la guitarra. Cada técnica para tocar la guitarra es solo una forma caracterizada de usar los dedos de la mano la cual es la propietaria de todas las técnicas. El dedo es la unidad anatómica y funcional de la mano a la cual le corresponden todo o casi todo lo que se puede hacer en una técnica solos o en combinación con otros dedos.... Nos quedamos muy cortos al decir que la técnica de un dedo es aquella para hacer el tremolo y/o el trino. Cada dedo tiene 3 a 4 articulaciones las cuales pueden combinarse en diferentes formas en un solo dedo o combinandolos en diferentes e innumerables permutaciones por lo cual antes de decir que una técnica es igual a otra tenemos que describirla funcionalmente porque incluso el tremolo hecho por una persona con un dedo puede ser diferente al que hace otra en términos de la articulación usada y es esta la razón por la cual no podemos decir que la técnica del plectrodedo de Carlos Reyes, la de Dimitris Kotronakis, la de Ángel Navarro son las mismas del Dedillo. Por lo tanto la técnica de un dedo no es solo técnica del plectro haciendo tremolo sino de todas las técnicas conocidas. Por cuestiones de física elemental ,vectorial y Biofisica el uso de dedo como plectro
produce los mejores resultados en cuanto a velocidad y características del sonido cuando es bien empleado...pienso que debemos liberarnos de la pulsación pura solo en flexión y comenzar a visualizar el futuro de las técnicas de la guitarra en flexión y extensión.

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby 3Sunny3 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:57 am

Carlos Reyes wants to share this information with the people who are participating in this forum: a compendium of his 5 Síntesis through this linkage:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/946ed3_4a8a39434c594bacacbb114a714cf9e8.pdf

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Re: "Plectrodedo" technique

Postby 3Sunny3 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:58 am

The plectrodedo technique is not an one finger technique, the plectrodedo technique play the guitar with the Middle, index and thumb fingers; besides it isn't going to be used as a unique technique when playing the guitar, it is going to be used in combination with other guitar techniques.
Each guitar technique is just a characterized way to use the fingers to play this instrument and actually the hand is the owner of all techniques.
The finger is the anatomical and functional unit of the hand which belong all of the movements and actions done for it alone or together with other fingers. We were very short in saying that the one finger technique
is that to make the tremolo and / or the trill. Each finger has 3 to 4 joints which can be combined in different ways in a single finger or combining them in different and innumerable permutations so that before saying that one technique is the same as another we have to describe it functionally because even the tremolo made by a person with one finger may be different than the one made by another in terms of the joint used and this is the reason why we can say that the technique of the plectrodedo of Carlos Reyes, that of Dimitris Kotronakis and that of Angel Navarro are the same as that of Dedillo. Therefore the technique of one finger is not only technique of plectrum making tremolo but of all known techniques.
For matters of elementary physics, vectorial physics and Biophysics the use of finger as a plectrum produces the best results in terms of speed and characteristics of sound when it is well used ... I think we must free ourselves from pure pulsation only in flexion and begin to visualize the future of guitar techniques in flexion and extension.


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