What is apoyando for?

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outlaw
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What is apoyando for?

Post by outlaw » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:12 am

Initially concerned with the left hand I have turned attention to right-hand technique and I am perplexed!

Is the apoyando technique, of striking the string and letting the strike finger come to rest on the string beneath, for note emphasis or string dampening? If one plays the top string followed by the third string, using this technique, neither string is dampened - they ring out as if played by a free stroke. If during a piece a fourth string note is to be sustained while playing the melody on the third string the apoyando technique is not possible. This means that in a polyphonic piece it can be applied only intermittently, hence note emphasis is inconsistent.

While watching Segovia in the 'Song of the Guitar' video I can see no evidence that he strikes the string and lets his finger come to rest on the string beneath: he plays with intimate contact pushing end releasing the string but he always plays with clarity, dampening each note to its value with his fingertips. Segovia's fingers are rounded throughout - nothing like the straight-fingered Youtube demonstrations of the apoyando technique.

Jack Bruce makes excellent use of it playing a bass line but what place does apoyando have in polyphonic classical guitar?

Thanks

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:54 am

It is a technique to use where appropriate - learning your instrument is about finding out when that is (among many other things!)

There are very many places where it is either not appropriate, or simply impossible, but keep in mind that the volume/emphasis implications of apoyando are not essential - you can play it quietly and use it for tone (or damping) only.
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Jack Douglas
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Jack Douglas » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:13 pm

Hi Outlaw,

I re-started lessons recently and discovered my right technique was flawed and I'm slowly re-learning many aspects of the right hand. Having played apoyando incorrectly (finger through the string, but immediately lifting it off and raising my hand) the relearning with alternating fingers and holding each stroke for the played note to ring and alternating fingers without raising my hand is a challenge. When I get it right it's an accomplishment and so worth the effort.
It's sounds to me like you're a more advanced player and all I can say from my re-learning perspective is that the effort is worth it.
Good luck with your apoyando!
Hauser III 2014!

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:30 pm

outlaw wrote: While watching Segovia in the 'Song of the Guitar' video I can see no evidence that he strikes the string and lets his finger come to rest on the string beneath:
Let's just say Segovia used apoyando a lot.

outlaw
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by outlaw » Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:47 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
outlaw wrote: While watching Segovia in the 'Song of the Guitar' video I can see no evidence that he strikes the string and lets his finger come to rest on the string beneath:
Let's just say Segovia used apoyando a lot.
I am sure you are right but I cannot see it in the video. I do not know how he can play rest strokes with such rounded figures and hand so near the strings. I as said, I am just becoming conscious of my deficiency in right hand technique.

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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by riffmeister » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:36 pm

Big fat sound. Love it.

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:38 pm

riffmeister wrote:Big fat sound. Love it.
+1
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riemsesy
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by riemsesy » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:49 pm

how can one do apayando with long nails?
it's for that reason I started to trim down my nails to approx. one milimeter
Best regards,
Richard Frank

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:03 pm

riemsesy wrote:how can one do apayando with long nails?
it's for that reason I started to trim down my nails to approx. one milimeter
By shaping them with all the different strokes, including apoyando, in mind. And by, normally, playing the string with the fingertip at an angle.
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Contreras
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Contreras » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:02 am

Making a beautiful sound ...
Put down the bagpipes ...
... and no one gets hurt.

Luis_Br
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Luis_Br » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:28 am

outlaw wrote:If during a piece a fourth string note is to be sustained while playing the melody on the third string the apoyando technique is not possible.
Maybe you can also change LH fingerging and position, so the same part is played on nonadjacent strings.
Just an option if you want apoyando for that part...

Steve Langham
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Steve Langham » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:46 am

IMO, Apoyando (rest-stroke) is used for two things:
-A clear and louder sound (particularly on the treble strings)
-A well done apoyando stroke compared to a standard free stroke will sound 'fuller' and will have a nicer tone

Apoyando is not used for damping strings in general. It can be but I would say that isn't the primary purpose.

Regarding your point about playing a melody on the third string and it damping the fourth string which interferes with maintaining the note on the fourth string. This is a good point and yes, it will be an issue and in this case you might choose not to use a rest-stroke. This is were you get into personal preference about how and when you use a rest-stroke compared to a free-stroke.

A good example of this is the popular Sor Study in Bm (Segovia #5). Some people will play this with a rest stroke to bring out the melody with a nice clear sound but as a consequence, it cuts off the inner notes on the adjacent lower string.
Some people accept this and just play it like this anyway but to my ears I don't like it as it cuts off notes when it shouldn't and I don't think it flows as well. So for me in this piece I wouldn't use a rest-stroke for the melody on the treble strings. Again, this comes down to personal preference.

It's fair to say that these days rest-stroke is not used as much as it used to be, there are probably more topics on this forum about rest-stroke vs free-stroke than anyone cares to read but you can search and view them for more on this topic.

Lawler
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Lawler » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:58 am

What is apoyando for?
Starting arguments.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:37 am

Steve Langham wrote: A good example of this is the popular Sor Study in Bm (Segovia #5). Some people will play this with a rest stroke to bring out the melody with a nice clear sound but as a consequence, it cuts off the inner notes on the adjacent lower string.
Some people accept this and just play it like this anyway but to my ears I don't like it as it cuts off notes when it shouldn't and I don't think it flows as well. So for me in this piece I wouldn't use a rest-stroke for the melody on the treble strings. Again, this comes down to personal preference.
A good example as you say Steve, another might be Carcassi Op 60 3, and for exactly the same reason; apoyando first string cuts off the major 3rd of the supporting harmony. But very many people counsel for it to bring out the melody. I'm fairly sure the composer in both examples would not have approved.
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Blondie
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Re: What is apoyando for?

Post by Blondie » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:07 am

Stephen Kenyon wrote: A good example as you say Steve, another might be Carcassi Op 60 3, and for exactly the same reason; apoyando first string cuts off the major 3rd of the supporting harmony. But very many people counsel for it to bring out the melody. I'm fairly sure the composer in both examples would not have approved.
Completely agree and I have argued this point previously here, it makes no musical sense and simply sounds wrong. It's a case of chopping up the music to make allowances for inadequate technique - both pieces sound great with a deep free stroke to bring out the melody.

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