fingerings...

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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IV Laws governing the quotation/citation of music


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Denian Arcoleo
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fingerings...

Postby Denian Arcoleo » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:45 pm

I'm going to get flak for this. I have a fair number of editions by Angelo Gilardino with his fingerings.
I don't understand his fingerings.
They make no musical sense to me.
I guess he and I just have vastly different conceptions of music.
runs for cover...

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: fingerings...

Postby Stephen Kenyon » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:01 pm

I think you'll find they are intended to create or rather allow for, cross-string ringing e.g. campanella or laissez-vibrer type sound. Actually, this would only apply to his own compositions.
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Lawler
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Re: fingerings...

Postby Lawler » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:04 am

I hear you. Print music for guitar is too often over-marked with fingerings. Aside from Angelo Gilardino's reasons, maybe the general issue is a hold-over from Segovia's parent-child attitude about teaching in his masterclasses... "Here is my recording... emulate it in detail. Here is my print edition... play it with these fingerings. Or suffer my wrath. (I love Segovia's playing, though.)" Maybe it arises from the fact that so many guitarists read staff notation as fingering directions rather than what notation really means (the sound of the music).

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: fingerings...

Postby Denian Arcoleo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:01 am

Lawler wrote: Maybe it arises from the fact that so many guitarists read staff notation as fingering directions rather than what notation really means (the sound of the music).


Precisely right.

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Re: fingerings...

Postby Julian Ward » Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:22 am

Once you get past the beginners stage and are an intermediate player, part of the essential learning process of the guitar is working out fingerings to suit you or experiment with several - particularly alternative positions. A good teacher should encourage this. Fingering should always allow the flow of music as the composer intended so great care must always be taken.

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: fingerings...

Postby Stephen Kenyon » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:29 am

Denian, is it AG's own pieces then or editions, e.g. the Segovia Archive?
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Re: fingerings...

Postby brooks » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:56 pm

Lawler wrote:I hear you. Print music for guitar is too often over-marked with fingerings. Aside from Angelo Gilardino's reasons, maybe the general issue is a hold-over from Segovia's parent-child attitude about teaching in his masterclasses... "Here is my recording... emulate it in detail. Here is my print edition... play it with these fingerings. Or suffer my wrath. (I love Segovia's playing, though.)" Maybe it arises from the fact that so many guitarists read staff notation as fingering directions rather than what notation really means (the sound of the music).


I don't at all mind arrangements/transcriptions to include comprehensive LH and RH fingerings. It seems to me that, apart from key and voicing, these are what constitute the "arrangement" for guitar. I think the guitarist should always regard them as suggested and feel free to change them for musical and/or technical reasons, but part of learning the art of fingering is to see how the masters went about it, and think about why they made the choices they did. I'm sure Segovia was happy to have Llobet's and Tarrega's arrangements of Albeniz, Granados, Bach, etc not because he wouldn't have been able to get the original scores and transcribe them from scratch, but because someone had already done the heavy lifting of key selection, voicing decisions, and writing out plausible fingerings which he used as a starting point and which evolved as he made them his own...which seems a reasonable approach even if he didn't allow his own students that freedom. But I agree that there are some arrangers where the choices don't seem to make any sense at all, and are a hindrance instead of a benefit and you end up changing almost all of them. It makes you wonder whether they were making random changes from existing versions to justify publishing a new edition. (This isn't a comment on Angelo Gilardino's arrangements as I've never seen one).

My real peeve is the common but often false assumption among published arrangers that the LH fingering are more important or more difficult to figure out than the RH, since so many of them provide comprehensive notation for the former and little if anything for the latter even when working out RH fingerings presents the bigger challenge, as with, say the Bach 1006a prelude. Bream doesn't make this assumption (at least if the one book of his arrangements that I have is anything to go by), and provides both in about equal measure.
Last edited by brooks on Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: fingerings...

Postby Denian Arcoleo » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:13 pm

Stephen Kenyon wrote:Denian, is it AG's own pieces then or editions, e.g. the Segovia Archive?


Mainly music AG has edited. Anyway, it's no big deal, just that in any given situation in which there might be three or four alternative fingerings AG seems to consistently pick the one that would be at the bottom of my list of preferences.


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