Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

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scottszone
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:22 am

guit-box wrote:
Elman Concepcion wrote:scottszone

That was a good attempt at that piece.

But it is far from pro stuff.
Try listening to pros.

There is a thread with slow vids in Delcamp that really demonstrates what is really going on with the top players.

Trust me - going through that thread will change your world.
You can thank “guit-box” for having the guts to put out the evidence despite the obvious obstacles of established classical guitar pedagogy and orthodoxy.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80875
Thank you Elman, that was precisely my point. If scottszone is going to be so arrogantly confident about his way of teaching and playing that he can pay zero attention to the topic being addressed by the moderator (soundminer), go on and on about how stupid it is and how his way of teaching is so much smarter, he should at least be able to back that up with a professional performance of Romanza. Like I said, Delcamp is not really the place to find advice from a professional teacher, you likely won't find that here, it costs money to find good advice and you can still spend lots of money and get bad advice from pros. -- there's no guaranty, I know that from experience. I find Delcamp useful for posting videos and hashing out arguments about what the pros are really doing, but it's best to take what anyone says with a healthy grain of salt.
According to your own terms, what right do you have to comment about any of this? Let me get this straight, you are not a pro, which is why you are here, and you are not open to the advice or experience of anyone except who you deem is a pro, of which they would have no interest in wasting time on this forum, and they just might mislead you and steal your money if they did. That's funny! Lulz.

Truly it takes modesty and courage to post on topic as I did on this hostile forum, as you are well aware. I never claimed my video was a shining example of anything. Honestly, I was simply serving raw meat to the sharks.
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by Elman Concepcion » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:34 am

scottszone wrote:
Thanks Elman, are you a pro? Not sure if you have the credentials to comment, I'd need to see you play some simple piece off-the-cuff with a webcam video so I could knock you down a few notches first.

Serious, thanks for listening, but it wasn't a showpiece and I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm paid quite well. I just find it hilarious the blindsided hero worship and egotism some display on this forum. I was warned it's full of a holes, but I find it quite entertaining, and even enlightening in some cases. Keep watching the pros folks, and stare hard at those little sausages, it'll make you all better in no time ;)
scottszone
Wow - are you a troll ?

Try my advice - get through the whole "viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80875" thread and then come back and comment.
It might take you a while, but all things worth time, take a while.

You seem to not like logical fallacies - nobody does - so why don't you go to the thread I recommended and look at the evidence and them lets talk about it?

Here is a little vid from one of my intellectual heroes.
I think this is a very efficient way of looking at problem solving.
It also solves the problem of not liking arguments from authority.
No need for that - I agree :-)
We can all make our own mind based on evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b240PGCMwV0

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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:43 am

One thing pros have is a lot of backbone, they're human, they blow it sometimes, they at times face harsh and in some cases unfair, slanderous, or destructive criticism from envious failures, poisonous critics, and ambitious competitors, they perform at times in insensitive, indifferent, or hostile environments. They fail to meet the expectations of idolizing fans on a bad night or in a bad hall. Sometimes they forget the music and have to start over or recover in painfully obvious ways. At times they play for next to no one, at other times in a room full of enemies or soul sucking zombies.

Make sure and study that when you are staring at their sausages. Or read the biographies of Segovia, Bream, Parkenening, etc. They will tell you all about it.
Last edited by scottszone on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by Elman Concepcion » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:57 am

scottszone wrote:One thing pros have is a lot of backbone, they're human, they blow it sometimes, they at times face harsh and in some cases unfair, slanderous, or destructive criticism from envious failures, poisonous critics, and ambitious competitors, they perform at times in insensitive, indifferent, or hostile environments. They fail to meet the expectations of idolizing fans on a bad night or in a bad hall. Sometimes they forget the music and have to start over or recover in painfully obvious ways. At times they play for next to no one, at other times in a room full of enemies or soul sucking zombies.

Make sure and study that when you are staring at their sausages. Or ready the biographies of Segovia, Bream, Parkenening, etc. They will tell you all about it.
Considering you don’t like logical fallacies, your response was nothing but a Red Herring. :-(
In case you forgot, that means attacking a parallel issue that has nothing to do with the original issue.

You are missing the point.

“If it disagrees with experiment, its wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn't make a difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn't make a difference how smart you are, who made the guess or what his name is... if it disagrees with experiment, its wrong. Thats all there is to it."

Richard Feynman

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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:11 am

Elman Concepcion wrote:
scottszone wrote:
Thanks Elman, are you a pro? Not sure if you have the credentials to comment, I'd need to see you play some simple piece off-the-cuff with a webcam video so I could knock you down a few notches first.

Serious, thanks for listening, but it wasn't a showpiece and I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm paid quite well. I just find it hilarious the blindsided hero worship and egotism some display on this forum. I was warned it's full of a holes, but I find it quite entertaining, and even enlightening in some cases. Keep watching the pros folks, and stare hard at those little sausages, it'll make you all better in no time ;)
scottszone
Wow - are you a troll ?

Try my advice - get through the whole "viewtopic.php?f=6&t=80875" thread and then come back and comment.
It might take you a while, but all things worth time, take a while.

You seem to not like logical fallacies - nobody does - so why don't you go to the thread I recommended and look at the evidence and them lets talk about it?

Here is a little vid from one of my intellectual heroes.
I think this is a very efficient way of looking at problem solving.
It also solves the problem of not liking arguments from authority.
No need for that - I agree :-)
We can all make our own mind based on evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b240PGCMwV0
Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time. It just takes consistent long term practice to perfect it. Hopefully some music is made along the way. It must be a certain personality type that need be puts the cart before the horse, and who labels anyone who suggests otherwise as either off topic, uninformed, arrogant, unprofessional, or a troll.

I'm primarily a jazz guitarist but enjoy practicing and performing classical guitar as well. My college professors warned me not to indulge this forum, they are belly laughing on the floor now.

Barrueco himself admits he wasn't a good student and didn't listen much to his professors, too bad he didn't have this forum to set him straight. LOL
Last edited by scottszone on Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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scottszone
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:16 am

Elman Concepcion wrote:
scottszone wrote:One thing pros have is a lot of backbone, they're human, they blow it sometimes, they at times face harsh and in some cases unfair, slanderous, or destructive criticism from envious failures, poisonous critics, and ambitious competitors, they perform at times in insensitive, indifferent, or hostile environments. They fail to meet the expectations of idolizing fans on a bad night or in a bad hall. Sometimes they forget the music and have to start over or recover in painfully obvious ways. At times they play for next to no one, at other times in a room full of enemies or soul sucking zombies.

Make sure and study that when you are staring at their sausages. Or read the biographies of Segovia, Bream, Parkenening, etc. They will tell you all about it.
Considering you don’t like logical fallacies, your response was nothing but a Red Herring. :-(
In case you forgot, that means attacking a parallel issue that has nothing to do with the original issue.

You are missing the point.

“If it disagrees with experiment, its wrong. In that simple statement is the key to science. It doesn't make a difference how beautiful your guess is, it doesn't make a difference how smart you are, who made the guess or what his name is... if it disagrees with experiment, its wrong. Thats all there is to it."

Richard Feynman
I was not commenting on your response so the red herring is your assumption. I was making a much needed but so far neglected point directly related to the topic of discussion. Or in this case, I was feeding breadcrumbs to the pigeons.
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by Elman Concepcion » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:22 am

scottszone wrote: Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time.
LOL

scottszone wrote:

“Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time.”

Lol - you just showed your hand.
Dude just stop.
You just lost all credibility with your last statement.

See you later.
Good luck.

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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:50 am

Elman Concepcion wrote:
scottszone wrote: Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time.
LOL

scottszone wrote:

“Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time.”

Lol - you just showed your hand.
Dude just stop.
You just lost all credibility with your last statement.

See you later.
Good luck.
That's called a double bind (a situation of conflict from which there is no escape; unresolvable dilemma).

I never sought your credibility, and by the way, you never established or demonstrated it but arrogantly assumed it, spoke off topic, misrepresented, criticized in an authoritarian and dogmatic manner, and preached your "all knowing" wisdom which is not, all while accusing me with feigned innocence of doing just the same. How could you stoop so low? It must have been feeding time.
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by Elman Concepcion » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:03 am

scottszone wrote:
Elman Concepcion wrote:
scottszone wrote: Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time.
LOL

scottszone wrote:

“Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time.”

Lol - you just showed your hand.
Dude just stop.
You just lost all credibility with your last statement.

See you later.
Good luck.
That's called a double bind (a situation of conflict from which there is no escape; unresolvable dilemma).

I never sought your credibility, and by the way, you never established or demonstrated it but arrogantly assumed it, spoke off topic, misrepresented, criticized in an authoritarian and dogmatic manner, and preached your "all knowing" wisdom which is not, all while accusing me with feigned innocence of doing just the same. How could you stoop so low? It must have been feeding time.
Down the rabbit hole you go.
You just keep digging your own grave :-(
I hope you realize that all you write will be here for ever and for all to see, unless you delete it or the mods delete it.

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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:15 am

Elman Concepcion wrote:
scottszone wrote:
Elman Concepcion wrote:

scottszone wrote:

“Feynman, cute. What is going on with "right hand technique" is so obvious it boggles my mind that anyone would spend 50+ pages of youtube videos trying to chase after it. I got it the first time.”

Lol - you just showed your hand.
Dude just stop.
You just lost all credibility with your last statement.

See you later.
Good luck.
That's called a double bind (a situation of conflict from which there is no escape; unresolvable dilemma).

I never sought your credibility, and by the way, you never established or demonstrated it but arrogantly assumed it, spoke off topic, misrepresented, criticized in an authoritarian and dogmatic manner, and preached your "all knowing" wisdom which is not, all while accusing me with feigned innocence of doing just the same. How could you stoop so low? It must have been feeding time.
Down the rabbit hole you go.
You just keep digging your own grave :-(
I hope you realize that all you write will be here for ever and for all to see, unless you delete it or the mods delete it.
Off topic fear mongering. Weapon of choice for scoundrels.

Fallacies noted:
Changing the Subject
Attacking the Person
Appeal to Authority
Anonymous Authorities
Style Over Substance
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:04 am

Scott - way going off-topic here but ...

... I noticed the posting date of your "Romanza" is January - so obviously nothing at all to do with this thread.

You appear to be frank and outspoken, happy to put your cards on the table so I'll ask you - what was your purpose in posting such a video? Nothing to do with this thread for me either - I'm just curious.

Mark

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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:31 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:Scott - way going off-topic here but ...

... I noticed the posting date of your "Romanza" is January - so obviously nothing at all to do with this thread.

You appear to be frank and outspoken, happy to put your cards on the table so I'll ask you - what was your purpose in posting such a video? Nothing to do with this thread for me either - I'm just curious.

Mark
Excellent question and right on the mark Mark :) "Context is everything" is a popular rule of thumb. Without context we are left to guess and our imaginations may take us far from the truth.

At the time I was simply testing my webcam with a new guitar. I was also experimenting with the use of no thumb nail (I've since went back to a nail). I was also trying out extra-high tension strings. I wanted to hear my guitar at mezzo forte so performed the piece with that in mind (when performing in noisy working-class environments as I often do dynamics go unheard). I also wanted to hear how the piece sounded with no warm up, just grab and play, first take. And I had just trimmed my nails quite short and wanted to see if I could play that way comfortably with no preparation (I've since went back to longer nails). Also, in the spirit of self-observation and self-assessment.

In addition, a student of mine was learning the piece and wanted a version slow enough he could follow my left hand. By having me specifically perform it, he could later ask me questions about it in his lesson. And finally, I had a request for the song from a potential client who wanted to hear it before booking me and assured me a webcam video would suffice (and yes I got the gig).

Granted, it was not the best or worst version ever performed (which was not what I was aiming for anyway), but it got the job done. By the way, when performing for the general public a standard like Romanza will entertain them far more than a tricky Bach suite or flashy show piece that they can not recognize or follow.

As to why I would post that video in this forum, it was in part bait for predators.

“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”
― Sun Tzu
Last edited by scottszone on Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:16 pm

scottszone wrote:At the time I was simply testing my webcam ...

... in this forum, it was in part bait for predators.
Thanks. I got why it was linked here, just not why it existed in the first place.

scottszone wrote:“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”
― Sun Tzu
Even if I live upstream?

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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by Soundminer » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:20 pm

Gentlemen..gentlemen, cmon now. :wink:

I thought that sounded great scottzone, bit slow..but that was on purpose

ever meet SRV since you're from Austin? Huge fan myself..


In all fairness...posting what you mean by actually playing is of course the best way to go forth in this thread.
So anyone who does has my respect. Never mind playing virtuoso..that's not the direct topic subject

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Re: Right hand technique~what REALLY is happening

Post by scottszone » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:51 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
scottszone wrote:At the time I was simply testing my webcam ...

... in this forum, it was in part bait for predators.
Thanks. I got why it was linked here, just not why it existed in the first place.

scottszone wrote:“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”
― Sun Tzu
Even if I live upstream?
Up or down stream, I consider you a friend Mark (and everyone else on this forum). The only enemies in this forum are not persons, but vices.

“If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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