"The Rest of " the Exercises

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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DaveLeeNC
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"The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by DaveLeeNC » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:46 pm

For linear CG passages Segovia scales or one of 4,743,255 alternative scale exercises (I counted'em - prove me wrong :D ) are kind of the standard (at least for beginner/intermediate level play). For arpeggio kind of things the 120 Giuliani RH studies would seem to be the standard.

But there is a different skill that is also important (to me, anyway). It does show up more in jazz/other than CG. So I will use a jazz guitar label that I think everyone will understand. And that is playing "chord melody". This skill requires that you "all at once and smoothly" move from one multi-string, LH position to another - typically 3 or 4 LH fingers involved. Are there exercises like the Segovia scales and Giuliani 120 aimed at this particular skill set?

Thanks.

dave
1984 Jesus Marzal cedar CG
1971 Sherry-Brener (Cedar) Garcia No. 1 CG
1975 Gibson ES-175D Achtop Electric
2016 Eastman AR905CE-BD Carved Archtop Electric

Marshall Dixon
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by Marshall Dixon » Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:42 pm

I'm no jazz player, but years ago played duets with a student of guitar at the University of Oregon. He was using Don Latarski's method books (who happend to be his professor), and spoke highly of them. You can check out Don's web site for what's available.

DaveLeeNC
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by DaveLeeNC » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:36 pm

Marshall, thanks. Latarski is new to me.

dave
1984 Jesus Marzal cedar CG
1971 Sherry-Brener (Cedar) Garcia No. 1 CG
1975 Gibson ES-175D Achtop Electric
2016 Eastman AR905CE-BD Carved Archtop Electric

Luis_Br
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by Luis_Br » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:09 pm

I am not used to jazz, so I don't know exactly what "chord melody" means. If this is playing chords melodically, kind of scales made of chord notes (also known as arpeggios), it is really not so common in CG methods, but there are some of them. The one I remember with lots of that sort of "melodic arpeggios" is Isaias Savio "Modern School of Guitar" book 2, Technique of Mechanism. There are some studies using that kind of arpeggios, like Villa-Lobos number 2. Scales and those exercises are good to work several things at the same time, but I prefer working each specific mechanism individually first. I prefer Carlevaro book 3 exercises on hand positioning and jumps first.
To prepare for quick chords changes, I prefer independence exercises and scales in thirds and sixths, which you find at Savio's book or Giuliani Op1 and several others (like Pujol etc.). Pujol "La Escuela Razonada de la Guitarra", book 4, also has several exercises on chord changes, with 3 or 4 fingers, but I prefer working his exercises on independence first, as you find in his sequence (like famous "spider" exercise from Pumping Nylon, which is in Pujol book 4 too).
When talking about "the rest" of exercises, I think there are by far more exercises than scales or arpeggios. There are specific exercises to finger independence, jumps, hand position changes, slurs, ornaments, vibrato, tremolo, rasgueos, harmonics etc.

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David_Norton
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by David_Norton » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:30 pm

For pieces which shift block chords from one to another, I'd recommend --

Luis Milan - six Pavanas
JS Bach - Sarabande in B minor, BWV 1002
Sor - Study in C, Op. 6 #8
Villa Lobos - Etude #6
Segovia - Estudio in E (recorded by John Williams)
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

MaritimeGuitarist
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by MaritimeGuitarist » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:52 am

I am not aware of any exercises for block chords that are similar to the Giuliani or the Segovia studies you mentioned, apart from playing scales in chords. However, there are many pieces that can help develop this technique--a few have already been mentioned. In fact, I think it occurs more than you think it does.
There are a few things to consider when developing block chord technique including right hand movement, left hand placement, and voicing. There are etudes that more or less target each of these. You may want to think about which one you are really looking to develop (from the sound of your post, you are most interested in you left hand). I think David provided some great suggestions, and here are a few more:

For targeting right hand:
Villa Lobos Etude #4

For left hand placement:
Sor Op. 31 No. 20 and Op. 35 No. 11

For voicing (can be developed with any of the above, but here's another good one to try):
Brouwer Etude #2 (Estudios sencillo)

The Villa Lobos is an advanced study, the two Sor studies lean towards intermediate, and the Brouwer is probably the easiest of the bunch.

Just a thought, but if you're interested in jazz chord/melody playing, would it not be a good idea to search for and learn some jazz chord/melody songs/etudes? Plenty of 'em out there!

DaveLeeNC
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by DaveLeeNC » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:41 pm

Thank you to everyone for all the input and suggestions. It is very helpful.

I would also add that the jazz guitar world is full of 'stuff like this'. In fact "learning 'all' the jazz chords" is pretty much an exercise in itself.

dave
1984 Jesus Marzal cedar CG
1971 Sherry-Brener (Cedar) Garcia No. 1 CG
1975 Gibson ES-175D Achtop Electric
2016 Eastman AR905CE-BD Carved Archtop Electric

Nick Cutroneo
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:08 am

Doing Jazz Chord Solos from a technical perspective (as others have said) it's just playing 3 or 4 note chords and being able to shift them. It can be likened to creating a Solo Arrangement of a folk melody in classical guitar standards.

However, to be fluent in doing chord solos, you need to know your chord voicings, especially voicings with melody notes on the top 2nd and 1st string. You'll want to learn your Drop 2 and Drop 3 voicings and their inversions (in all keys). In addition, you'll want to know how to use chord substitutions to aid in creating an interesting bass line/connection from chord to chord. I'd say it's more about music theory than physical technique.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

DaveLeeNC
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by DaveLeeNC » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:45 pm

Just for "completeness/clarity" regarding my inquiry ...

I started playing again last year after a LONG time away from guitar (decades). At the time I started my intent was to build a repertoire of 'fingerstyle' stuff played on my archtop jazz guitar (popular and jazz standard arrangements). But I also had a pretty good classical guitar and I moved a good bit of my learning efforts into the classical guitar to take advantage of the rich/structured body of technique work available. Not surprisingly my goals have now expanded and include classical guitar pieces.

Across this broad space of guitar arrangements is more interesting stuff than I would ever learn in a lifetime. So improvisation (and even doing my own arranging) is low on the priority list. FWIW, I would guess that 2/3'rds of my guitar time is now spent on my classical guitar and at this point my repertoire is roughly 1/2 classical guitar 'stuff'.

But I do often run into the need to 'efficiently/effectively handle block chords'. And in the classical guitar based technique work (as in exercises ala' scales, Guiliani RH stuff, etc) I just wasn't encountering anything that appeared to me to be aimed at this particular skill.

Thanks again for all the input.

dave
1984 Jesus Marzal cedar CG
1971 Sherry-Brener (Cedar) Garcia No. 1 CG
1975 Gibson ES-175D Achtop Electric
2016 Eastman AR905CE-BD Carved Archtop Electric

Nick Cutroneo
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Re: "The Rest of " the Exercises

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:01 pm

DaveLeeNC wrote:But I do often run into the need to 'efficiently/effectively handle block chords'. And in the classical guitar based technique work (as in exercises ala' scales, Guiliani RH stuff, etc) I just wasn't encountering anything that appeared to me to be aimed at this particular skill.
I don't think you'll find something which will directly relate to the chordal issues of a Chord Solo. The best thing to do is to take your inversions of drop 2 and 3 chord voicings/inversions and practice them up and down the neck of the guitar in all 12 keys using PIMA. As part of the issue will be the type of chord fingerings you'll be encountering in Chord Solos.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

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