How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

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LBrandt
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How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Tue May 09, 2017 4:10 pm

Just curious. How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this Nocturne by Mertz? Would you finger it the way it is shown or otherwise?
Scan0006.jpg
Thanks,

Louis
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andi33x
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by andi33x » Tue May 09, 2017 5:04 pm

I would play it as written. The fingering seems to be well-thought-out to me.
What would be your alternative?
There is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a guitar - maybe aside from that of two guitars (Frederic Chopin)

LBrandt
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Tue May 09, 2017 5:42 pm

I was really questioning the fingering of the D minor in measure 6, after playing the C# in that measure with the third finger.

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guitarrista
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by guitarrista » Tue May 09, 2017 5:55 pm

LBrandt wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 5:42 pm
I was really questioning the fingering of the D minor in measure 6, after playing the C# in that measure with the third finger.
But after that C# you move the 3rd finger to play F on D string and then the rest of measure 6 is very natural in terms of fingering as notated. Or is it that exact transition of the 3rd finger that bothers you?
Konstantin
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andi33x
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by andi33x » Tue May 09, 2017 6:06 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 5:55 pm
LBrandt wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 5:42 pm
I was really questioning the fingering of the D minor in measure 6, after playing the C# in that measure with the third finger.
But after that C# you move the 3rd finger to play F on D string and then the rest of measure 6 is very natural in terms of fingering as notated. Or is it that exact transition of the 3rd finger that bothers you?
I agree. I would even lift all fingers during the g before the d minor.
There is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a guitar - maybe aside from that of two guitars (Frederic Chopin)

LBrandt
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Tue May 09, 2017 6:25 pm

So I am assuming that you would not favor playing the last C# in measure 5 with finger 4, letting finger 4 again play the C# in measure 6, then sliding it to D for the D minor chord.

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guitarrista
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by guitarrista » Tue May 09, 2017 7:20 pm

LBrandt wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:25 pm
So I am assuming that you would not favor playing the last C# in measure 5 with finger 4, letting finger 4 again play the C# in measure 6, then sliding it to D for the D minor chord.
Oh sure, that's good if it is easier for you - sliding 4th finger from D to C# and back to D again in measures 5-6; gives you time to put 3rd finger at F on D string (and 2nd on A on G string; sort of using 4th finger as an anchor finger); the rest is the same as notated.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

LBrandt
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Tue May 09, 2017 8:54 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 7:20 pm
LBrandt wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 6:25 pm
So I am assuming that you would not favor playing the last C# in measure 5 with finger 4, letting finger 4 again play the C# in measure 6, then sliding it to D for the D minor chord.
Oh sure, that's good if it is easier for you - sliding 4th finger from D to C# and back to D again in measures 5-6; gives you time to put 3rd finger at F on D string (and 2nd on A on G string; sort of using 4th finger as an anchor finger); the rest is the same as notated.
Thanks, so in that case, what is the downside of fingering it my way?

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guitarrista
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by guitarrista » Tue May 09, 2017 9:01 pm

I don't see any downside if you can execute it well in terms of playing the piece. In terms of your continued education as a guitarist, you lose an opportunity to get better at re-arranging left-hand shapes without the benefit of an anchored finger (though the 2nd finger on and above A on G string comes close, in the original).
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

LBrandt
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Tue May 09, 2017 10:26 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 9:01 pm
I don't see any downside if you can execute it well in terms of playing the piece. In terms of your continued education as a guitarist, you lose an opportunity to get better at re-arranging left-hand shapes without the benefit of an anchored finger (though the 2nd finger on and above A on G string comes close, in the original).
Interesting point. Thanks.

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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by Luis_Br » Tue May 09, 2017 11:38 pm

I don't think it is a big problem cuting short a tiny bit the C# when going to d minor chord.
But if I would bother with this transition I would finger the c# with finger 1 since ending of measure 5.

LBrandt
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Wed May 10, 2017 3:17 pm

So does anyone feel that the alternative that I mentioned, that is, by playing the last C# in measure 5 with finger 4, letting finger 4 again play the C# in measure 6, then sliding it to D for the D minor chord, would result in losing any texture or continuity of the harmony?

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guitareleven
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by guitareleven » Thu May 11, 2017 3:46 am

Quite the opposite. Using four is conducive to greater continuity.

kmurdick
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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by kmurdick » Thu May 11, 2017 1:07 pm

The easiest way to handle this is to treat the A,G,A line in measure 6 (2nd, 3rd and 4th eighth notes) as a break in the ringing arpeggio, and put a slur between the 2nd and 3rd eighth notes. There are other more difficult ways to do it if you want to have a continuous ringing arpeggio.

I just looked at it again and realized the break in the ringing arpeggio continues in the next triplet, so I would advise playing it as written. There are plenty of ringing notes, including the melody E, to cover the slightly awkward jump of the 3rd finger.

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Re: How would you finger measures 5 and 6 of this piece?

Post by Luis_Br » Tue May 16, 2017 11:31 pm

kmurdick wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 1:07 pm
There are plenty of ringing notes, including the melody E, to cover the slightly awkward jump of the 3rd finger.
This is an important point which is actually not clear in the edition above. I recommend downloading original ed from Boije (search Mertz op 4) and you will see the high E meas. 6 is actually a quarter note stem up, while c# a and g are stem down. So holding c# is not the point, melody conduction is e to d. Probably a typing mistake by the editor.

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