Thumb in triangle position.

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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meouzer
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:35 pm
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado

Thumb in triangle position.

Post by meouzer » Wed May 10, 2017 8:51 pm

You of course know about the famous triangle position for the right hand. Any guidelines for determining horizontal distance of thumb to fingers? I know the thumb should be able to move without interfering with the movement of the fingers and conversely. Lets say the index finger is planted on a high string and the thumb strums towards the index finger. How OK is it for the thumb to come in contact with the index finger? (1) Tip to tip (really bad?) (2) minimal/incidental contact at thumbs mid-joint (OK?) (3) No contact at all (great?).

Also in the triangle position, any guidelines for determining angle of thumb to strings? 45 degrees typical? Perhaps complicated because length of thumb might play a part.

meouzer
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 8:35 pm
Location: Grand Junction, Colorado

Re: Thumb in triangle position.

Post by meouzer » Thu May 11, 2017 2:03 pm

Let me be be more specific. Forget about the thumb angle question. In doing rest stroke with both thumb and index finger, when the thumb and index finger end up on the same string, the distance between them is 17 mm: (First touch tips exactly, and then move the index finger down 17 mm to get their position. 17 mm just happens to be the width of the index finger). So is that fine or is it too close? Feels fine to me. If you have a good rest stroke and hand form, you can take your own measurement and compare with mine.

kmurdick
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Re: Thumb in triangle position.

Post by kmurdick » Thu May 11, 2017 5:06 pm

It is Ok for the thumb to follow through to the index finger. Of course a lot of good players don't do it, but a lot of good players do.

Luis_Br
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Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Thumb in triangle position.

Post by Luis_Br » Tue May 16, 2017 11:44 pm

I would work finding a posotion where thumb wont bother i and viceversa. Most of times it is not a big problem but sometimes it is annoying. Most good players who don't bother with this normally don't bother using rest strokes either.

kmurdick
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Re: Thumb in triangle position.

Post by kmurdick » Wed May 17, 2017 12:50 am

The best thing about P following through to the i finger is that P gets some relief and i is not at all disturbed. You see players who play extremely fast P-i alternation will often follow through to the i finger.

Luis_Br
Posts: 2160
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:50 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Thumb in triangle position.

Post by Luis_Br » Wed May 17, 2017 1:33 am

Several times I rest thumb on i or i on thumb right after stroke (some teachers here call it semi-rest stroke). When alternating p-i for a melodic passage such as a scale, keeping them close helps equalizing tone quality. But as a default position, I think it is important to avoid thumb competing with i finger. Here Marcelo Kayath shows an exercise he used to practice to move thumb out (it is in Portuguese, sorry, but maybe only seeing the video is enough to understand it). I was in this masterclass, and he put a lot of emphasis in hand positioning, both RH and LH:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31wfx9mOaug#t=7m10s

kmurdick
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Re: Thumb in triangle position.

Post by kmurdick » Wed May 17, 2017 12:49 pm

You can see in tremolo pieces that many good players either use P rest stroke, or if they use P free stoke, they follow through to the 'i' finger. I believe that the most efficient stroke is to follow through if you can. Watch Anna at 1:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwjX-m4LkYk

Guitarblissimo
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:08 am

Re: Thumb in triangle position.

Post by Guitarblissimo » Sun May 28, 2017 6:40 pm

meouzer wrote:
Thu May 11, 2017 2:03 pm
... when the thumb and index finger end up on the same string, the distance between them is 17 mm ...
I don't think it's necessary to measure the exact distance. It just has to be enough that finger movements don't get in conflict. To find the right position I suggest the following exercise with alternate picking p i:
i alway picks third string. p starts on fifth and goes down step by step to second string and back to fifth. Find a hand position that makes this exercise possible without altering its position.

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