To Dot or Not!!

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Jack Douglas
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Sun May 28, 2017 7:32 pm

I really appreciate everyone's advice. My very first classical guitar in 1990 or 1991 was made by Dake Traphagen and named 'Brookies' had a gold 7th fret dot that he installed. I think I'm going to do a repeat of that. The gold never tarnished and was just subtle enough to catch the eye.
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Jack Douglas
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Sun May 28, 2017 8:43 pm

riffmeister wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 5:04 pm
I like to have a marker at the 7th fret, the blue dots from Rosette Products are great....and easily reversible.
Hi Riff,
Thanks for the Rosette Products suggestion. I checked out their site and found a couple of items I'll likely order.
Jack
Hauser III 2014!

Dofpic
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Dofpic » Sun May 28, 2017 8:53 pm

My Sahlin did not have a dot but when I went to visit him I ask him to put one on and he did by putting a beautiful mother of pearl dot that is understated but perfect. Glad I did. would be very cautious having a repair person put a permanent one on unless you have complete confidence they would not mar the beauty of the instrument. Sahlin of course did a wonderful job.
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Dave Stott
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Dave Stott » Sun May 28, 2017 9:11 pm

+ 1 on the recommendation for Rosette products.

I have the ivory ones from SBM.

I have them on the 5, 7 & 9 on my Cordoba Solista. They seem to last forever for me.
riffmeister wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 5:04 pm
I like to have a marker at the 7th fret, the blue dots from Rosette Products are great....and easily reversible.
2015 Cordoba GK Pro Negra
2015 Cordoba Solista Cedar
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Jack Douglas
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Sun May 28, 2017 9:33 pm

Dofpic wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 8:53 pm
My Sahlin did not have a dot but when I went to visit him I ask him to put one on and he did by putting a beautiful mother of pearl dot that is understated but perfect. Glad I did. would be very cautious having a repair person put a permanent one on unless you have complete confidence they would not mar the beauty of the instrument. Sahlin of course did a wonderful job.
Hi Dofpic,

Doug Ching will do it. He's excellent!

Jack
Hauser III 2014!

mmapag
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by mmapag » Mon May 29, 2017 2:47 pm

On my GVR Estudio, he had installed what looks like a small triangle of either bone or MOP at 7. It is so subtle that I hardly notice it. I like having one at 7 and use white out on my Esteve.
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Brynmor
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Brynmor » Mon May 29, 2017 7:26 pm

Have not had a guitar with dot markers for over 35 years. I just got used to it over time and it has not been a problem.

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georgemarousi
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by georgemarousi » Tue May 30, 2017 6:51 am

I have tried without dots, and found myself calculating distances of empty frets before or after, when having to play in the middle of the fretboard..

So a dot on 7th solved that extra "calculation" of where to place my hand, Its a great point of reference for me :)
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zupfgeiger
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by zupfgeiger » Tue May 30, 2017 8:26 am

I grew up with dots at 5. and 7. fret and somehow love to have them, although I am fully aware that I don't really need orientation points. I played some guitars which din't have them, and after a while I got acquainted to the dotless neck. With a little practice one can easily do shifts without dots. Nonetheless: My new guitar which I will pick up at Tobias Braun's workshop end of June will be fitted with two dots. Force of habit.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
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zupfgeiger
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by zupfgeiger » Tue May 30, 2017 8:27 am

I grew up with dots at 5. and 7. fret and somehow love to have them, although I am fully aware that I don't really need orientation points. I played some guitars which din't have them, and after a while I got acquainted to the dotless neck. With a little practice one can easily do shifts without dots. Nonetheless: My new guitar which I will pick up at Tobias Braun's workshop end of June will be fitted with two dots. Force of habit.

Moderators, please remove this double post, thanks.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017
Alain Raifort, cedar/EIR, 2004

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Contreras
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Contreras » Tue May 30, 2017 9:36 am

Luis_Br wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 12:50 pm
I don't have dots in my luthier guitars ...
me either, but I do find a small sticky marker useful when learning a new piece or sight reading ...
Luis_Br wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 12:50 pm
I like practicing at night with lights off and I consider a piece ready when I can play it securely without ever looking at the guitar.
My thoughts entirely ... I like to play my best learnt pieces with my eyes closed
Put down the bagpipes ...
... and no one gets hurt.

Jack Douglas
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Tue May 30, 2017 11:52 am

zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 8:26 am
I grew up with dots at 5. and 7. fret and somehow love to have them, although I am fully aware that I don't really need orientation points. I played some guitars which din't have them, and after a while I got acquainted to the dotless neck. With a little practice one can easily do shifts without dots. Nonetheless: My new guitar which I will pick up at Tobias Braun's workshop end of June will be fitted with two dots. Force of habit.
Hi Zupfgeiger,
Your point is well taken. For me the 7th fret dot started with my first Luthier made classics guitar. Since then I've had 7th fret dot on every guitar I've owned. I can play easily without the dot, but honestly, I'm like you, I like the dot. It sort of completes the guitar. Today, I'm going to a jeweler to price a 14 kt gold dot. I may get a comparison price from a Luthier friend with abalone in a color that matches one in the Rosette.
Congratulations on the upcoming Tobias Braun. I know you're excited.
Best,
Jack
Hauser III 2014!

Smudger5150
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Smudger5150 » Tue May 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Jack Douglas wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 1:46 pm
Luis_Br wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 12:50 pm
I don't have dots in my luthier guitars, I have only in an old Yamaha I use eventually when traveling around.
Sometimes I look at my hand or even with mirror to check some positioning in the beginning of practice, but I quickly avoid looking at hands. I like practicing at night with lights off and I consider a piece ready when I can play it securely without ever looking at the guitar.
Hi Luis,
Your advice is the best yet!! Thanks!
Jack
Yes, playing in the dark (once you have memorized the piece) sounds like a good test and practise.
"Music washes away the dust of every day life." Art Blakey

"If I don’t practice for a day, I know it. If I don’t practice for two days, the critics know it. And if I don’t practice for three days, the public knows it." Louis Armstrong

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zupfgeiger
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by zupfgeiger » Tue May 30, 2017 1:56 pm

Jack Douglas wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:52 am
zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 8:26 am
I grew up with dots at 5. and 7. fret and somehow love to have them, although I am fully aware that I don't really need orientation points. I played some guitars which din't have them, and after a while I got acquainted to the dotless neck. With a little practice one can easily do shifts without dots. Nonetheless: My new guitar which I will pick up at Tobias Braun's workshop end of June will be fitted with two dots. Force of habit.
Hi Zupfgeiger,
Your point is well taken. For me the 7th fret dot started with my first Luthier made classics guitar. Since then I've had 7th fret dot on every guitar I've owned. I can play easily without the dot, but honestly, I'm like you, I like the dot. It sort of completes the guitar. Today, I'm going to a jeweler to price a 14 kt gold dot. I may get a comparison price from a Luthier friend with abalone in a color that matches one in the Rosette.
Congratulations on the upcoming Tobias Braun. I know you're excited.
Best,
Jack
Hi Jack
a propos gold dot. I know you are joking about a 14 kt gold dot, but Andrea Tacchi installed two gold plated dots at the 5. and 7. fret of my Garcia copy. It was a very delicate work and matches the noble looks of the guitar better than white dots. But as every thing has a downside: They are often quite useless as you can't see them anymore when the light is getting a bit somber. Anyway to distract a bit from your dot discussion (sorry for my undisciplined behaviour) I show you a recent work Andrea Tacchi made for one of his Coclea models. I am not a particular fan of Andrea's most elaborated rosettes, but this one is a real masterpiece, tmho.
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The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017
Alain Raifort, cedar/EIR, 2004

astro64
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by astro64 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:18 pm

Indeed, if the dots are too subtle to be seen in practical situations they serve no purpose. I think I remember seeing Julian Bream playing in a video where he had various big white dots on the neck. My Byers has a 7th string MOP market but I put a bigger white self-adhesive dot on top of it....Ah, such sacrilege ;)

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