To Dot or Not!!

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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rinneby
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by rinneby » Tue May 30, 2017 8:43 pm

7th fret in enough and helpful.

/Jon
1965 - Masaru Kono
1996 - Masaru Kohno Maestro

You are the instrument, not the guitar

Jack Douglas
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Tue May 30, 2017 9:19 pm

zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 1:56 pm
Jack Douglas wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:52 am
zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 8:26 am
I grew up with dots at 5. and 7. fret and somehow love to have them, although I am fully aware that I don't really need orientation points. I played some guitars which din't have them, and after a while I got acquainted to the dotless neck. With a little practice one can easily do shifts without dots. Nonetheless: My new guitar which I will pick up at Tobias Braun's workshop end of June will be fitted with two dots. Force of habit.
Hi Zupfgeiger,
Your point is well taken. For me the 7th fret dot started with my first Luthier made classics guitar. Since then I've had 7th fret dot on every guitar I've owned. I can play easily without the dot, but honestly, I'm like you, I like the dot. It sort of completes the guitar. Today, I'm going to a jeweler to price a 14 kt gold dot. I may get a comparison price from a Luthier friend with abalone in a color that matches one in the Rosette.
Congratulations on the upcoming Tobias Braun. I know you're excited.
Best,
Jack
Hi Jack
a propos gold dot. I know you are joking about a 14 kt gold dot, but Andrea Tacchi installed two gold plated dots at the 5. and 7. fret of my Garcia copy. It was a very delicate work and matches the noble looks of the guitar better than white dots. But as every thing has a downside: They are often quite useless as you can't see them anymore when the light is getting a bit somber. Anyway to distract a bit from your dot discussion (sorry for my undisciplined behaviour) I show you a recent work Andrea Tacchi made for one of his Coclea models. I am not a particular fan of Andrea's most elaborated rosettes, but this one is a real masterpiece, tmho.
Hi Michael,
I stopped by the jeweler this afternoon and ordered a 1.5 mm by 2.00 mm piece of 14 kt gold. I had two smaller diameter pieces that she took, so hopefully the larger piece won't cost much.
Thank you for posting the Tacchi Rosette. It's superb. He's a brilliant artist.
Has the MT saddle been completed?
Last edited by Jack Douglas on Wed May 31, 2017 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hauser III 2014!

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Cloth Ears
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Cloth Ears » Tue May 30, 2017 10:17 pm

If you practice a piece enough, you could do it blindfolded. No dots required.

For a flamenco player, it would just confuse the issue when a capo / cejilla is being used.

I don't have stabilisers on my bike either :P

Keith
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Keith » Tue May 30, 2017 11:53 pm

classical guitar--dot at 7th fret can be helpful and it splits the 1-12 frets in such a way that more are not needed. it helps finding the harmonics as well. flamenco--I concur with Cloth Ears--forget it. way too confusing if you are looking at the dot and having to move the dot in your head relative to where you placed your cejilla.

a small diameter piece of steel such as the shaft of a tiny finishing nail works well. just lop off the head and drill a 1/16 inch hole and a little CA and you are good to go. john bogdanovich uses this approach.
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

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spanishguitarmusic
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by spanishguitarmusic » Wed May 31, 2017 1:56 am

For me it's important to have fret markers, at least on the 5th and 7th fret. My guitar doesn't have any fret markers and I find I get lost especially when learning a new piece of music. I was thinking of getting those binder paper reinforcers for the holes when they tear. Just pop out the little dot from the reinforcers and apply it to the frets that you want them on! It may work!

astro64
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by astro64 » Wed May 31, 2017 2:19 am

Cloth Ears wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 10:17 pm
If you practice a piece enough, you could do it blindfolded. No dots required.

For a flamenco player, it would just confuse the issue when a capo / cejilla is being used.

I don't have stabilisers on my bike either :P
Isn't the capo itself like a fret marker ;)

RichardUno
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by RichardUno » Wed May 31, 2017 3:31 am

Violinists everywhere are laughing at us.

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zupfgeiger
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed May 31, 2017 7:53 am

Jack Douglas wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 9:19 pm
zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 1:56 pm
Jack Douglas wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:52 am


Hi Zupfgeiger,
Your point is well taken. For me the 7th fret dot started with my first Luthier made classics guitar. Since then I've had 7th fret dot on every guitar I've owned. I can play easily without the dot, but honestly, I'm like you, I like the dot. It sort of completes the guitar. Today, I'm going to a jeweler to price a 14 kt gold dot. I may get a comparison price from a Luthier friend with abalone in a color that matches one in the Rosette.
Congratulations on the upcoming Tobias Braun. I know you're excited.
Best,
Jack
Hi Jack
a propos gold dot. I know you are joking about a 14 kt gold dot, but Andrea Tacchi installed two gold plated dots at the 5. and 7. fret of my Garcia copy. It was a very delicate work and matches the noble looks of the guitar better than white dots. But as every thing has a downside: They are often quite useless as you can't see them anymore when the light is getting a bit somber. Anyway to distract a bit from your dot discussion (sorry for my undisciplined behaviour) I show you a recent work Andrea Tacchi made for one of his Coclea models. I am not a particular fan of Andrea's most elaborated rosettes, but this one is a real masterpiece, tmho.
Hi Michael,
I stopped by the jeweler this afternoon and ordered a 1.5 mm by 2.00 mm piece of 14 kt gold. I had two smaller diameter pieces that she took, so hopefully the larger piece won't cost much.
Thank you for posting the Tacchi Rosette. It's superb. He's a brilliant artist.
Has the MT saddle been completed?
Hi Jack

well then you were serious with the golden dot, good luck with it. A Hauser is definitely a worthy instrument for jeweler-made golden fret markers.

The MT saddle is in the making. As you know my Garcia and the worn out Alain Raifort are at Karel Dedain's workshop in Gent for a proper re-polisch. I brought your block and Karel promised to carve a saddle for the Garcia from it, but he said he would fail to make two out of it. This Saturday I will drive to Gent to pick up my guitars and the pre-historic saddle. Will report later the weekend. The Garcia will sound strong as a Mammoth. :D

Cheers
Michael
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017
Alain Raifort, cedar/EIR, 2004

Whiteagle
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Whiteagle » Wed May 31, 2017 9:37 am

I like liquid paper dots on 5,7,9 and 12. Compared to others looks like I'm very dotty! :D

Jack Douglas
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Wed May 31, 2017 11:32 am

Hi Jack

well then you were serious with the golden dot, good luck with it. A Hauser is definitely a worthy instrument for jeweler-made golden fret markers.

The MT saddle is in the making. As you know my Garcia and the worn out Alain Raifort are at Karel Dedain's workshop in Gent for a proper re-polisch. I brought your block and Karel promised to carve a saddle for the Garcia from it, but he said he would fail to make two out of it. This Saturday I will drive to Gent to pick up my guitars and the pre-historic saddle. Will report later the weekend. The Garcia will sound strong as a Mammoth. :D

Cheers
Michael
[/quote]

Hi Michael,
Thanks for the update on your Garcia and Raifort. I'll be anxious to get your reaction after the new MT saddle is installed.
Regarding the gold dots. Many jewelers stock gold wire they use to melt down for repair or custom work. The wire comes in varying diameters and it gets cut in the required length. The jeweler here will polish the end that gets exposed making the installation easier for the Luthier. She didn't have in stock the diameter I needed so she just ordered a very short piece that should arrive in a couple of days. Anyway, the gold dot installation is fairly straightforward. I'll update as soon as I get it done.

Cheers,
Jack
Hauser III 2014!

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zupfgeiger
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed May 31, 2017 2:28 pm

I recall that Andrea Tacchi had a hell of work with including the gold plates into the rosette. But that's another story and another kind of work. I'll keep you posted.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017
Alain Raifort, cedar/EIR, 2004

beanctr
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by beanctr » Wed May 31, 2017 4:37 pm

Love the decal Rosette dots, in fact I wish they made a black dot to cover dots other than the 7th. I used to use white out and have installed a few MOP dots with a drill. I just use the 7th but I find it important. R
"Guitar Hobbyist"

Jack Douglas
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:27 pm

IMG_1012.jpg
Well, I did it. Doug Ching did a great job with the installation. He told me the diameter of the piece of gold wire I had was too small and did a mock-up in a piece of ebony to demonstrate. He heated and tapped the piece of gold wire to expand the diameter and demonstrated the larger size in the piece of ebony so that I could visualize the new larger diameter better. He was absolutely right. He painstakingly and carefully installed the gold dot and beautifully polished it.
Doug is building beautiful guitars at very fair prices. His detail work is second to none.
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zupfgeiger
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Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by zupfgeiger » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:54 pm

Looks great, Jack. I knew it right off that your Hauser is a jewel. :) The neck of that guitar seems to be quite thick btw...Do you feel comfortable with it? Easy playing feeling probably. O also love U necks more than flat D necks.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017
Alain Raifort, cedar/EIR, 2004

Jack Douglas
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Location: Ashland, Va

Re: To Dot or Not!!

Post by Jack Douglas » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:17 pm

zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:54 pm
Looks great, Jack. I knew it right off that your Hauser is a jewel. :) The neck of that guitar seems to be quite thick btw...Do you feel comfortable with it? Easy playing feeling probably. O also love U necks more than flat D necks.
Michael,

Thanks very much. It is definitely a jewel! The U shaped neck is quite comfortable. The slightly extra thickness keeps the fingers just far enough apart that it makes a barre more comfortable. And it seems to add a bit of ease when playing without the barre. Anyway, thank you for the compliment!

Jack
Hauser III 2014!

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