The importance of a good private instructor

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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AndreiKrylov
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by AndreiKrylov » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:02 pm

Well...
I respectfully disagree...
there are great players who are not good teachers at all...
and ... while I respect Aaron Shearer, I found music contents of his book very boring and not really useful to pupils with certain way of thinking...
I'd better speak by music...Please listen it on Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, etc. Thanks!

kmurdick
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by kmurdick » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:41 pm

Andrekrylov is right about the teacher thing. And Shearer's books are boring. Shearer should have written pieces that were much shorter and more engaging. If he wanted 50 measure pieces, he could have added repeats or made them multi-sectional like A,A, B, A where the A section was in 4/4 and the B section was in 3/4. The books need more compositional imagination.

davekear
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by davekear » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:12 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:02 pm
Well...
I respectfully disagree...
there are great players who are not good teachers at all...
Yea, I agree with that. There are great players who can't teach. That's not what I said. What I said was if your teacher doesn't play well, find another teacher.
And Aaron Shearer covers the basics really well. Great book for beginners. If you're just starting out, that's the book to get. Or if you're really against it, get Parkening's guitar method, vol 1. I don't think it's as good as Shearer's but it's good.
The purpose of any good beginning instruction book is to establish the basic fundamentals of technique. It''s not a haphazard thing, it's actually very standard. So both those books I mentioned do that pretty well. There are other good beginning instruction books out there too. I think Scott Tennant has one, couldn't go wrong with that. But very important to get the fundamentals down. Lot of ways to go wrong if you don't.

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Erik Zurcher » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:38 pm

A teacher instructs, corrects and motivates. Some of the internet instruction videos are fine, but they never correct you. Only a teacher does that. Skype lessons are great if you can't find a teacher nearby.
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

davekear
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by davekear » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:39 pm

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:38 pm
A teacher instructs, corrects and motivates. Some of the internet instruction videos are fine, but they never correct you. Only a teacher does that. Skype lessons are great if you can't find a teacher nearby.
Words of wisdom! That's it in a nutshell. Thank you!

mikew63
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by mikew63 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:16 pm

Yes well said Erik. Having just commenced my own CG journey, I decided to get started right away with a highly recommended teacher. I have weekly lessons and happy to report that I have been pleased with my progress so far. A key teacher input that I have come to recognise is his ability to focus on the necessary elements to ensure a sense of momentum. As a new student I sometimes find myself floundering or diverging from set goals and each weekly lesson typically attends to these problems and kick-starts me for the following week .. I love it. I also recognise the importance and characteristics of the developing relationship that exists between teacher and student .. a fine balance of respect, discipline, and much-needed kindness to help build performance confidence in the timid new player. The teacher really holds the key to your early progress and I feel fortunate to have found a really good one !!
Alhambra 4P

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Erik Zurcher » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:31 pm

I asked my teacher once how do you recognize a good, qualified teacher and you know what he said? Ask your teacher who his teacher was! If he had a good teacher, he will boast about it. If he tries to dodge the question by changing the subject you will know that he is unqualified! My teacher studied from Antonio Pereira Arias (Uruguay), who was a student of Andres Segovia.
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

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joachim33
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by joachim33 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:38 pm

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:31 pm
I asked my teacher once how do you recognize a good, qualified teacher and you know what he said? Ask your teacher who his teacher was! If he had a good teacher, he will boast about it. If he tries to dodge the question by changing the subject you will know that he is unqualified! My teacher studied from Antonio Pereira Arias (Uruguay), who was a student of Andres Segovia.
And who was Segovia's teacher? :wink:

I am afraid this doesn't quite work. Not everyone who is a good practitioner is a good teacher and vice versa. I agree there is a correlation.

Also there are these remarks from John Williams on Segovia's teaching.

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Erik Zurcher » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:53 pm

This question about Segovia's teacher comes up every time as (self)justification by autodidact guitarists. The reality is that the world of classical guitar has moved on. The entrance level of conservatoires around the world now is so high that this argument is no longer valid. Name me a professional classical guitarist who didn't have professional tuition?
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

kmurdick
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by kmurdick » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:29 am

Zurcher says, "My teacher studied from Antonio Pereira Arias (Uruguay), who was a student of Andres Segovia."

Segovia wasn't really a teacher. Lots of people went to his master classes so they could say that they studied with Andres Segovia. If you watch the classes, he just tells the student how he plays or fingers a piece. Just my opinion.

davekear
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by davekear » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:09 am

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:53 pm
This question about Segovia's teacher comes up every time as (self)justification by autodidact guitarists. The reality is that the world of classical guitar has moved on. The entrance level of conservatoires around the world now is so high that this argument is no longer valid. Name me a professional classical guitarist who didn't have professional tuition?
These are all really good points. And I don't know if I've ever heard it stated so concisely or eloquently. (Can I hire you as my attorney, I need you for another thread). Anyway, these are really good points. So for example... should you go looking for justification for not using your "a" finger because you read somewhere that allegedly Fernando Sor once said that he only used it for melodies when he had to? Or should you look at ALL the great professional guitarists of today who were taught by some pretty great teachers, and realize that the reason they've all trained and use their "a" finger is because if they didn't, it would limit their dexterity!? Should you continue to justify it, and look for excuses why it's not really important or necessary to use it ? The real reason you justify not using your "a" finger is because you never had a good teacher that taught you its importance and how to properly use it, and now it's too difficult. Just one example. I've noticed for many years now, that some classical guitar students (who don't play so well), justify their bad habits in a variety of ways. Some eventually realize it, and some don't. Those that roll up their sleeves, get themselves a good instructor, and practice correctly, do become better players. It's not an easy instrument. Harder than most. If you find yourself justifying your poor playing and you keep looking for unusual solutions...GET A GOOD TEACHER.
And by the way, learn to use your fingernails and learn to do the p,a,m,i tremolo. Those are basics. If you decide to do it differently later, that's fine. But don't use the few exceptions you may find as an excuse to be lazy. It takes a bit of work. Get your basics in. Any good teacher will teach you this.
Last edited by davekear on Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:25 pm, edited 18 times in total.

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Erik Zurcher » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:06 am

kmurdick wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:29 am
Zurcher says, "My teacher studied from Antonio Pereira Arias (Uruguay), who was a student of Andres Segovia."

Segovia wasn't really a teacher. Lots of people went to his master classes so they could say that they studied with Andres Segovia. If you watch the classes, he just tells the student how he plays or fingers a piece. Just my opinion.
Segovia lived in Montevideo for a few years and had regular students. The (recorded) masterclasses as we know them, came much later.
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

davekear
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by davekear » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:33 am

Segovia had some pretty notable students. One of them is a good friend of mine; Eliot Fisk. He was his last private student. Add to that Christopher Parkening, Julian Bream, John Williams, and other great players. Not everyone liked him, but he evidently made quite an impression on most. I had a fiend of mine who was a concert pianist; Mario Feninger, who's mother was a very accomplished player and composer of classical guitar music. She sent a piece to Segovia; he wouldn't look at it because it was written by a woman. So I hear. I actually played a suite she wrote. It was a really good piece. Many years ago.

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by AndreiKrylov » Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:18 pm

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:53 pm
This question about Segovia's teacher comes up every time as (self)justification by autodidact guitarists. The reality is that the world of classical guitar has moved on. The entrance level of conservatoires around the world now is so high that this argument is no longer valid. Name me a professional classical guitarist who didn't have professional tuition?
well.. I am probably not a professional classical guitarist according to this qualification...
I did not have any professional tuition :)
To be precise - I started music school (classical guitar) at age of 10, but found way of teaching and material given to me so boring and irrelevant , so I drop out in few months and then taught myself by all kind of books I could find. At 21 I started to work as a guitar teacher :), but, in USSR there I lived then, one could not work without certain piece of paper, therefore I went back to school (while teaching and playing at the same time) and finished music school and music college. I liked both, but did they taught me how to play guitar? No. But I liked music theory, harmony, arrangement, music history, solfeggio, conducting orchestra, playing and passing exams on piano, accordion, folk string instruments etc. It was certainly a good experience, but not in any way tuition which you mentioned.
I played through Shearer books. They are well organized, but music material ... I wish it would be built more on music of different composers, and for perfect guitar method how I see it - one need to find a way to unleash creativity and freedom of the pupil and not just give him orders as it normally done so far.
The way in which current music education is structured will create good copyists, but not a creators. But it is also the way how all kind of education is structured in general, therefore it seems right for most ...
I'd better speak by music...Please listen it on Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, etc. Thanks!

davekear
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by davekear » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:08 pm

Yes, AndreiKrylov, you're a great player! I've known a few players like you....gypsies :). Actually, Manitas De Plata comes to mind.
Environment also has a lot to do with how well one progresses. If you have good players around you, in whatever form, that certainly helps. On the other side of the coin however, there are many players who just aren't making it, where some good, standard instruction would make a huge difference. And learning these basics, especially when young, will give one a great advantage.

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