The importance of a good private instructor

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Erik Zurcher
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Erik Zurcher » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:50 pm

Andrei Krylov and Pat Coldrick are the only classical guitarists I know without formal tuition. Both prove that it can be done.
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by AndreiKrylov » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:05 pm

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:50 pm
Andrei Krylov and Pat Coldrick are the only classical guitarists I know without formal tuition. Both prove that it can be done.
Good private instructor is great for study and development!
I am totally for this way of study!
with GOOD one! :)
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

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eno
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by eno » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:29 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:18 pm
well.. I am probably not a professional classical guitarist according to this qualification...
I did not have any professional tuition :)
To be precise - I started music school (classical guitar) at age of 10, but found way of teaching and material given to me so boring and irrelevant , so I drop out in few months and then taught myself by all kind of books I could find. At 21 I started to work as a guitar teacher :), but, in USSR there I lived then, one could not work without certain piece of paper, therefore I went back to school (while teaching and playing at the same time) and finished music school and music college. I liked both, but did they taught me how to play guitar? No. But I liked music theory, harmony, arrangement, music history, solfeggio, conducting orchestra, playing and passing exams on piano, accordion, folk string instruments etc. It was certainly a good experience, but not in any way tuition which you mentioned.
I played through Shearer books. They are well organized, but music material ... I wish it would be built more on music of different composers, and for perfect guitar method how I see it - one need to find a way to unleash creativity and freedom of the pupil and not just give him orders as it normally done so far.
The way in which current music education is structured will create good copyists, but not a creators. But it is also the way how all kind of education is structured in general, therefore it seems right for most ...
Wait, Andrey, if you graduated from music school and college specializing in CG didn't you have a CG instructor there? If you did then you did have a professional tuition
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Rokutaru Nakade No.9 1969, 1967
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:17 pm

eno wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:29 pm
AndreiKrylov wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:18 pm
well.. I am probably not a professional classical guitarist according to this qualification...
I did not have any professional tuition :)
To be precise - I started music school (classical guitar) at age of 10, but found way of teaching and material given to me so boring and irrelevant , so I drop out in few months and then taught myself by all kind of books I could find. At 21 I started to work as a guitar teacher :), but, in USSR there I lived then, one could not work without certain piece of paper, therefore I went back to school (while teaching and playing at the same time) and finished music school and music college. I liked both, but did they taught me how to play guitar? No. But I liked music theory, harmony, arrangement, music history, solfeggio, conducting orchestra, playing and passing exams on piano, accordion, folk string instruments etc. It was certainly a good experience, but not in any way tuition which you mentioned.
I played through Shearer books. They are well organized, but music material ... I wish it would be built more on music of different composers, and for perfect guitar method how I see it - one need to find a way to unleash creativity and freedom of the pupil and not just give him orders as it normally done so far.
The way in which current music education is structured will create good copyists, but not a creators. But it is also the way how all kind of education is structured in general, therefore it seems right for most ...
Wait, Andrey, if you graduated from music school and college specializing in CG didn't you have a CG instructor there? If you did then you did have a professional tuition
Yes,there were CG instructors. I avoided instructor in school(good player, but very unpleasant person) , and in college CG instructor told me not to come to him after I played few things for him... :)
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by eno » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:25 pm

You are a real rebel, Andrei :D
Paulino Bernabe 'India' 2001
Rokutaru Nakade No.9 1969, 1967
Masaru Kohno No.6 1967

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Erik Zurcher » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:38 pm

Andrei, I wonder: if your instructors had been kind and inspiring people, would you have dropped out? It seems to me that you were very unfortunate to have such unpleasant teachers. They ruined your musical aspirations, and yet you still play. They couldn't ruin your passion for guitar music, but imagine you had Nikita Koshkin as your teacher...
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:51 pm

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:38 pm
Andrei, I wonder: if your instructors had been kind and inspiring people, would you have dropped out? It seems to me that you were very unfortunate to have such unpleasant teachers. They ruined your musical aspirations, and yet you still play. They couldn't ruin your passion for guitar music, but imagine you had Nikita Koshkin as your teacher...
Yes, certainly I would study with kind, inspiring teacher :)
I am still student...I am always trying to learn something new :)
Nikita Koshkin is basically the same age as me and started to play guitar same year or later as me :) and ... I exchanged letters on internet with him and he is nice man, but I do not think that I would want him as a teacher. Our views on many music and non-music subjects are quite different.
But yesterday I was thinking about this topic and ... even I did not have a regular tuition -yes I took some lessons from different players and teachers, and some very important lessons from the guitarist whose teacher knew Segovia and met him in USSR and could take some lessons (1-2?) from him ... :)

But ... even those lessons with teachers were very important - it was not many of them in my life (as personal encounters) and I always tried not just blindly accept everything I was told, but to think critically about everything I was told and then to try to apply it to myself in the way how it will be most suitable for myself...
One simple example: my thumb is straight (most of the folks and guitarists I met had thumb bent and easily bending back, but mine is not just straight...) therefore using certain techniques which would be very natural and easy for the one with bent thumb are not natural, nor easy for me...therefore I had to adjust to it in a way which would be most applicable and convenient for me, rather than to try imitate someone with bent thumb. We are probably all have some anatomical differences, though they are not very big, they could be such which could prevent our technical development in certain ways and as whole...there are different sports and different people succeed in different sports, but it will fruitless if long distance runner will try to be heavy metal ball thrower and opposite... and none amount of training will fix that ... therefore guitar study/ activity should be not offered and insisted like : one size fit all, but calibrated very individually according to physical and mental differences, to will power and goals of each player, to one's personality and philosophy, to natural cultural conditions there one's exist and there one came from... and so on.
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by davekear » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:59 am

One thing's for sure, if you learn the basics when you first start out, the younger the better, you'll be way ahead of the game. Gotta learn rest strokes, free strokes, (with all fingers, pima). Gotta learn the treble clef, and where those notes are on the guitar, and how to practice those basics correctly. Get those things down, and you'll be alright.

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Luis_Br » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:40 pm

I think a good player and a teacher is always good. You can always learn from someone with more experience. You only teach yourself, a teacher teaches hundreds, so he/she has by far more experience in teaching.
Even if you don't have the same musical or technical view, you can filter what the instructor teaches you and learn the good things. You can also learn his way and change later on. Certainly if the teacher is really bad and you don't fill too much evolution, you should search for another one. But a teacher is generally a great shortcut to learning.
You can also play with other musicians, other instruments, and learn a lot. I think music is about interaction. Going to a music school is good not only for the specific guitar teacher, but to learn music in general, to meet other musicians, interact and play with classmates and so on.

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:14 pm

davekear wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:12 pm
AndreiKrylov wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:02 pm
Well...
I respectfully disagree...
there are great players who are not good teachers at all...
Yea, I agree with that. There are great players who can't teach. That's not what I said. What I said was if your teacher doesn't play well, find another teacher.
And Aaron Shearer covers the basics really well. Great book for beginners. If you're just starting out, that's the book to get. Or if you're really against it, get Parkening's guitar method, vol 1. I don't think it's as good as Shearer's but it's good.
The purpose of any good beginning instruction book is to establish the basic fundamentals of technique. It''s not a haphazard thing, it's actually very standard. So both those books I mentioned do that pretty well. There are other good beginning instruction books out there too. I think Scott Tennant has one, couldn't go wrong with that. But very important to get the fundamentals down. Lot of ways to go wrong if you don't.
Here's an exception https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZCFzfuxkDI&t=94s
He has taught many world class guitarists and he does not even use a guitar while teaching! From what I've read, he is not a very good guitar player! Does anyone here speak Mandarin and can translate some of what he's saying?

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by davekear » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:27 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:14 pm
davekear wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:12 pm
AndreiKrylov wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:02 pm
Well...
I respectfully disagree...
there are great players who are not good teachers at all...
Yea, I agree with that. There are great players who can't teach. That's not what I said. What I said was if your teacher doesn't play well, find another teacher.
And Aaron Shearer covers the basics really well. Great book for beginners. If you're just starting out, that's the book to get. Or if you're really against it, get Parkening's guitar method, vol 1. I don't think it's as good as Shearer's but it's good.
The purpose of any good beginning instruction book is to establish the basic fundamentals of technique. It''s not a haphazard thing, it's actually very standard. So both those books I mentioned do that pretty well. There are other good beginning instruction books out there too. I think Scott Tennant has one, couldn't go wrong with that. But very important to get the fundamentals down. Lot of ways to go wrong if you don't.
Here's an exception https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZCFzfuxkDI&t=94s
He has taught many world class guitarists and he does not even use a guitar while teaching! From what I've read, he is not a very good guitar player! Does anyone here speak Mandarin and can translate some of what he's saying?
Yea, you'll find an exception here and there. But with so many great players who also teach out there, if you're serious about this great instrument...find one of them.

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by ddray » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:52 am

Erik Zurcher wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:53 pm
This question about Segovia's teacher comes up every time as (self)justification by autodidact guitarists. The reality is that the world of classical guitar has moved on. The entrance level of conservatoires around the world now is so high that this argument is no longer valid. Name me a professional classical guitarist who didn't have professional tuition?
I think it depends on where you are and where you want to go with it. If you're starting out "cold" then you definitely need one-on-one teaching. If you already have some musical background, maybe not. If you're planning to make the guitar your career, definitely need teaching. If you're just doing it for your own enjoyment, maybe not.

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by kmurdick » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:09 pm

Erik, I watched Coldrick on video, and I do not believe he is self taught. He may have not have had formal weekly lessons, but someone guided that right hand. It's perfect. Maybe he had a roommate or friend who helped him. When I was studying regularly with a teacher, I would help a friend of mine who wasn't studying with anyone. He ended up playing better than I.

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by Kenneth Shumway » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:53 am

davekear wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:00 pm
AndreiKrylov wrote:
Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:51 pm

it is great to have a good teacher!
But how one who know almost nothing about craft could know if "good teacher" is good?
One thing that's important is how well does he/she play? If they don't play well, find someone who does.
Go to a classical guitar society and ask there. Go there or call them.
And for right now, go to kmurdick's you tube site (He's got a post here on this topic.)
Here's his page https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... D7FA3F7B59 ... The guy knows what he's doin.
Also go get Aaron Shearer's Classic Guitar Technique, volume 1. One of the best beginning classical instruction books there is.
I am a beginner at classical guitar though I have some experience with other instruments. I really don't have access to a teacher where I live. You recommended Aaron Shearer's first book. I purchased it a while back and really like his approach. Has anyone else used this method in conjunction with online instruction successfully?

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Re: The importance of a good private instructor

Post by kirolak » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:22 pm

I agree a good teacher is essential - I started playing as a teenager simply by figuring out which strings & frets were which (I could read music fluently) & ended up playing very fast, but very weakly/softly.

When I first applied at a Conservatoire, no-one would take me on, as this was seen as a huge hurdle to correct. However, one teacher enjoyed the challenge, & in 3 months I was playing "strongly", with full strength & at full volume. If not for him, I would never have done anything more on the guitar; I was totally depressed & felt there was no point in continuing after the first rejection. . . now I think I tend to overplay, perhaps - & have a horror of any tinkly, weak players; but at least, my errors are loud & clear!

So, I do think we all need teachers, up to a certain point/financial disaster! I would love a good teacher now, but I have to put myself second, as I have a child at school.

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