Playing a turn

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LBrandt
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Playing a turn

Post by LBrandt » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:31 pm

Which of these is the correct way to play a turn?

Note, note above, note below, note?

Or, Note above, note, note below, note.

This is assuming that there is no accidental on the note itself.

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guitarrista
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Re: Playing a turn

Post by guitarrista » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:29 pm

From https://musicterms.artopium.com/t/Turn.htm:
When placed directly above the note, the turn (also known as a gruppetto) indicates a sequence of upper auxiliary note, principal note, lower auxiliary note, and a return to the principal note. When placed to the right of the note, the principal note is played first, followed by the above pattern. A vertical line placed through the turn reverses the order of the auxiliary notes.
So your first version is not correct (it is missing the return to the principal note on the first "turn-around"). The second one is correct if the gruppetto sign is placed right above the note; if it is placed a bit after it, then start with the note itself, followed by the four-note gruppetto as usual.
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

LBrandt
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Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:40 am

Re: Playing a turn

Post by LBrandt » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:41 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:29 pm
From https://musicterms.artopium.com/t/Turn.htm:
When placed directly above the note, the turn (also known as a gruppetto) indicates a sequence of upper auxiliary note, principal note, lower auxiliary note, and a return to the principal note. When placed to the right of the note, the principal note is played first, followed by the above pattern. A vertical line placed through the turn reverses the order of the auxiliary notes.
So your first version is not correct (it is missing the return to the principal note on the first "turn-around"). The second one is correct if the gruppetto sign is placed right above the note; if it is placed a bit after it, then start with the note itself, followed by the four-note gruppetto as usual.
Thanks. I'm sure that you've stated it correctly, but I'm still confused.

Can you just list for me, the two versions, showing each step?

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guitarrista
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Re: Playing a turn

Post by guitarrista » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:40 pm

( Note above, note, note below, note ) is correct - this is the gruppetto ornament. It is a 'turn' presumably because you first go one above, then turn and go back to 'base', then go one below, turn and go back to 'base'; sort-of like a figure-eight. The sign for the gruppetto is typically found directly above the note (the 'base' note). Let's call this gruppetto A.

But if the gruppetto sign is to the right of the note, rather than directly above it, you would start with the base note first, then continue as above, i.e.: ( note, note above, note, note below, note ). Let's call this gruppetto B.

Your first example was (note, note above, note below, note) - it resembles the gruppetto B sequence above, but is missing the return to base in the middle, and since that return to base is present in both versions of the gruppetto and is a definitional element, it is not a proper 'turn' - you didn't do a proper figure-eight but 'hopped over'' instead :-)
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

LBrandt
Posts: 774
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:40 am

Re: Playing a turn

Post by LBrandt » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:07 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:40 pm
( Note above, note, note below, note ) is correct - this is the gruppetto ornament. It is a 'turn' presumably because you first go one above, then turn and go back to 'base', then go one below, turn and go back to 'base'; sort-of like a figure-eight. The sign for the gruppetto is typically found directly above the note (the 'base' note). Let's call this gruppetto A.

But if the gruppetto sign is to the right of the note, rather than directly above it, you would start with the base note first, then continue as above, i.e.: ( note, note above, note, note below, note ). Let's call this gruppetto B.

Your first example was (note, note above, note below, note) - it resembles the gruppetto B sequence above, but is missing the return to base in the middle, and since that return to base is present in both versions of the gruppetto and is a definitional element, it is not a proper 'turn' - you didn't do a proper figure-eight but 'hopped over'' instead :-)
Thank you very much. I now understand.

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