Practice to performance level

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by Rick Beauregard » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:54 pm

I have similar challenges. It's about getting bored with the piece. What I try to do is focus on the process, many things you've heard above: start at the end, play is slow, play it fast, repeat until you get a phrase right 5x in a row. By playing these games you don't get bored with the piece itself. Eventually you reach a point where musicality breaks through, and you discover the piece anew.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
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guitarrista
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by guitarrista » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:07 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:59 pm
Hi,
I sometimes use what I call "extreme" playing with my students. I have them take the tempos to absurd speeds to see where/if there are mechanical breakdowns that need my attention. Then I ask them to set their metronome to "glacier" and check that there is another memory system (such as an audiated memory) other than motor memory, which often fails at very slow tempos.
Wow, this is a really clever approach to unearthing deficiencies! Thanks for the idea!
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

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Larry McDonald
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by Larry McDonald » Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:16 am

guitarrista wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:07 pm
Larry McDonald wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:59 pm
Hi,
I sometimes use what I call "extreme" playing with my students. I have them take the tempos to absurd speeds to see where/if there are mechanical breakdowns that need my attention. Then I ask them to set their metronome to "glacier" and check that there is another memory system (such as an audiated memory) other than motor memory, which often fails at very slow tempos.
Wow, this is a really clever approach to unearthing deficiencies! Thanks for the idea!
Your welcome.
Lare
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar Instructor
Royal Conservatory Advanced Theory Instructor

errrtoffie
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by errrtoffie » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:08 pm

There are no boring practice instead of playing same piece over and over with the same goal I change it to different approaches
for example 3 repetition for speed, 3 for dynamics, 3 for control, 3 for tone etc.

Mara Fortune
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by Mara Fortune » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:32 am

Larry McDonald wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:59 pm
Hi,
I sometimes use what I call "extreme" playing with my students. I have them take the tempos to absurd speeds to see where/if there are mechanical breakdowns that need my attention. Then I ask them to set their metronome to "glacier" and check that there is another memory system (such as an audiated memory) other than motor memory, which often fails at very slow tempos. Overlapping memory strategies are critical for performance, in my opinion.
All the best,
Lare

Hi! I'm really interested in what you have to say about memory here. When I struggle with technical consistency or I don't like the overall tone of a piece I'm playing, I'll greatly slow it down so that I can focus on each individual note or set of notes more closely. When I do this, I'll sometimes find myself suffering from random memory lapses, where partway through I find my fingers floundering over the strings, unable to figure out which to pluck or fret (or both!) next--even though I remember it fine at normal speed.

At the risk of being too tangential, I was wondering if you could explain your comments about memory a bit more. Specifically: What do you mean by "audiated memory" exactly? (I've never heard the term before.) Also, could you elaborate on the "overlapping memory strategies" you referred to? What types of strategies, and how might one effectively learn or utilize them? Any additional info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Larry McDonald
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by Larry McDonald » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:38 pm

Hi Mara,
I'm happy to help. Audiated memory is simply hearing the music in your head. We do this when we whistle a tune. I can only explain it as an anticipation of the music just as we play it. I think this is working when we hear a note mistake in our playing, rather than "seeing/feeling" it.

We had a discussion about this some time ago. You can read about it here.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66712#p732005

Here is Simon Salz' memorization tips. http://books.google.com/books?id=_pSYAx ... &q&f=false

From a fellow Wisconsinite,
Larry
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar Instructor
Royal Conservatory Advanced Theory Instructor

Mara Fortune
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by Mara Fortune » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:29 pm

Thanks for the links, Larry! I just joined the forum, and while I've been slowly perusing the topics one by one, I haven't had the chance to stumble on some of these older conversations yet. I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, so I have studied memory and cognition a bit (years ago!) so it was interesting to read everyone's take on memory processes as it relates to guitar.

The list of memorization tips was really interesting--I see now what you mean by using different types of memorization to encode a piece. I'll have to keep those techniques in mind going forward.

It's always nice to meet a fellow Wisconsinite. :)
Mara

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guitarrista
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by guitarrista » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:45 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:38 pm


Here is Simon Salz' memorization tips. http://books.google.com/books?id=_pSYAx ... &q&f=false
Thank you. Do you know what tips 9-15 are? I only see tips 1 to 8 and the next page is obscured.
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

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Larry McDonald
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by Larry McDonald » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:02 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:45 pm
Larry McDonald wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:38 pm


Here is Simon Salz' memorization tips. http://books.google.com/books?id=_pSYAx ... &q&f=false
Thank you. Do you know what tips 9-15 are? I only see tips 1 to 8 and the next page is obscured.
Hi,
The link above worked for me. But nevertheless, I posted it on my site, too, at.... <sorry, that link isn't going to be allowed. See my following post for the correct link>

The landing page on my website has been bypassed in this link; it is a commercial page where I offer lessons and publications. But hopefully, if I post a direct link to the teachers and interns pages, you can still get the Salz Tips for Memorization. I agree with and support the banning of commercial sites on this forum, and I know this link kinda gets into a grey area. Hopefully this is permissible (Perhaps Geoff could clarify for us?) Otherwise, I don't think I can help you with another source.
-Lare
Last edited by Larry McDonald on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar Instructor
Royal Conservatory Advanced Theory Instructor

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Larry McDonald
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Location: Milwaukee, Wi USA

Re: Practice to performance level

Post by Larry McDonald » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:05 pm

Oops,
I just realized there are some advertising on the teachers page, so here is a direct link to a pdf.
http://www.larrymcdonaldguitar.com/pdfs ... Guitar.pdf

Lare
Dr. Lawrence A. McDonald, D.M.A., Art Kaplan Fellow
Author of The Conservatory Tutor for Guitar
2008 Michael Thames Cd/Br
Royal Conservatory Advanced Guitar Instructor
Royal Conservatory Advanced Theory Instructor

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guitarrista
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by guitarrista » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:14 pm

Thank you!!
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

PeteJ
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Re: Practice to performance level

Post by PeteJ » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:15 pm

Larry McDonald wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:59 pm
Hi,
I sometimes use what I call "extreme" playing with my students. I have them take the tempos to absurd speeds to see where/if there are mechanical breakdowns that need my attention. Then I ask them to set their metronome to "glacier" and check that there is another memory system (such as an audiated memory) other than motor memory, which often fails at very slow tempos. Overlapping memory strategies are critical for performance, in my opinion.
All the best,
Lare
An excellent observation! This problem took me a long time to spot,

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