How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

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LBrandt
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How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:27 pm

Here is a section of "La Paloma", in 2/4 time.

How would you play measures 22 and 23? Specifically, how, where(string and fret) and with what fingering would you play the grace notes and the chord at the start of measure 23?
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:54 pm

I would assume that the first grace note is a mistake, that it should be a B (same in bar 26) so its a bar VII, the ornament is on string 1. To me it both sounds ridiculous that that grace note would be an A and its stupidly inconvenient, e.g. a lose-lose.
Editions make mistakes all the time; we do not have to play them.
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LBrandt
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Re: How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:13 pm

So you wouldn't play the 1st string, 5th fret A, then hammer-on to the 1st string C#, then the chord? Or even the 2nd string A, then C#, then the chord?

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guitarrista
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Re: How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by guitarrista » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:27 pm

I looked at the Tarrega transcription on IMSLP - as Stephen surmised, this grace note must be a mistake - it is a B not an A.

Here, with fingering too (though not the same transcription, it still shows seventh position):
lapaloma20-29.JPG
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Last edited by guitarrista on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LBrandt
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Re: How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:33 pm

Thanks. Where can I find that transcription?

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guitarrista
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Re: How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by guitarrista » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:36 pm

LBrandt wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:33 pm
Thanks. Where can I find that transcription?
http://imslp.org/wiki/La_paloma_(Yradie ... abArrTrans

Go to the last transcription, then click to view/download the pdf. It appears to be edited by Stefan Apke, and this work is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License.
Last edited by guitarrista on Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:48 pm

LBrandt wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:13 pm
So you wouldn't play the 1st string, 5th fret A, then hammer-on to the 1st string C#, then the chord? Or even the 2nd string A, then C#, then the chord?
Indeed not, not least as the basic principle of a grace note notation is that we don't play what we see; the grace notes are written first (to the left) of the chord but in fact we play the bass note, and any other chords notes and the first grace note at the same time - any other grace notes come next and the final note last, all slurred. There can be rare exceptions to that principle but certainly not in my view in this case.
There's another thing which is that ornaments in principle should both sound and feel natural, relaxed, easy - they should 'lie under the hand'. And sometimes in making transcriptions we change ornaments quite fundamentally to obey that principle. And in almost all cases, the detail of ornaments can be modified by the player, or left out altogether. I appreciate you are probably motivated to learn how to follow the detail of this piece, but assuming the A is a mistake, taking it literally would also be a mistake ... 8)
Simon Ambridge Series 40 (2005)
Trevor Semple Series 88 (1992)
Louis Panormo (1838)
Alexander Batov Baroque Guitar (2013)

LBrandt
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Re: How would you play 22 and 23 of this piece?

Post by LBrandt » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:39 pm

Thanks. Being fairly familiar with La Paloma, I thought that the A was a mistake, but I wasn't sure.

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