Tremolo

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Tomzooki
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Re: Tremolo

Post by Tomzooki » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:28 pm

wannabe wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:10 pm
Recently I had two different instructors give me their opinion on the tremelo. One feels if you can't do it when you first attempt you will never get...
jpryan wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:27 pm
I'd recommend staying away from the first instructor. Keep working on it.
I agree; stay away of that teacher. If is was true probably no guitarist in the universe would be able to have a good tremolo.

But I would suggest to wait for a while before working on it. Instead work to get good right hand technique, particularily good arpegios. When you will have a good right hand technique, tremolo, which is in fact a « one string arpegio » will be very easy to achieve. In that sense your first instructor would be right, but I doubt it was the meaning of what he told you...
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bacsidoan
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Re: Tremolo

Post by bacsidoan » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:48 pm

wannabe wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:10 pm
I have been struggling to learn the classical guitar for two and a half years now as an older adult. I love it but am progressing at a snails pace! Recently I had two different instructors give me their opinion on the tremelo. One feels if you can't do it when you first attempt you will never get. The other feels that if you keep working at it, it will come. I hope that the second is correct because my tremelo is horrible. As I speed up it becomes more uneven. The only time I can get evenness is at a slow tempo.
Speaking from my own experience, I'm going to go against the grain and tell you that the first teacher was at least partially right. Even Segovia's tremolo was not that great. If you keep working at it and with good instruction, you will get better and it will eventually sound OK. The question is: Is it worth the time and effort? My tremolo will never sound great but I have learned to embrace it after years and years of practice.

Rasputin
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Re: Tremolo

Post by Rasputin » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:45 pm

Maybe you just haven't found the right way to practise it - the right way for you, I mean.

The fact that so many experienced players say things like this makes me doubt the suggestion that as long as you have a good RH generally, tremolo is a fairly quick bolt-on. I think that it is a technique unto itself and the trick is to find the practice method that works for you. This is bound to vary from person to person but my guess is that ramping up only works for a tiny minority of people.

AndreiKrylov
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Re: Tremolo

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:59 pm

withdrawn
Last edited by AndreiKrylov on Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks!

Rasputin
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Re: Tremolo

Post by Rasputin » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:03 pm

AndreiKrylov wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:59 pm
tremolo goes down with age...
Starting when, would you say?

AndreiKrylov
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Re: Tremolo

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:09 pm

withdrawn
Last edited by AndreiKrylov on Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks!

Rasputin
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Re: Tremolo

Post by Rasputin » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:34 pm

Ah well, at least it's only gone down a bit.

wannabe
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Re: Tremolo

Post by wannabe » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:34 pm

Rasputin wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:51 pm
I say keep at it, if you are keen on tremolo pieces. I think it is always going to be a very particular technique... OK, good basic RH technique is probably going to make it easier to acquire, but it's not as though you can just work on your general technique and expect to pick up tremolo into the bargain - so why wait?

There have been a few threads on this subject recently. My opinion is that you are not really practising tremolo unless you are going relatively fast - maybe not fast enough to get the full tremolo effect, but at least say 100bpm - so if you have been playing a lot slower than that, then having a quick go at a much faster tempo and finding it is not getting any more even, that fits. I think alternating between slow and fast does work, but if you go slow then try to speed up incrementally, I think you hit a wall. You have to spend some of your practice time on the tremolo side of the wall, even if you also do some slow practice to remind your fingers what it is like to play evenly. I suggest setting the metronome at 100 and alternating between playing on every click and playing on every other click, if only for 10 days or so to see if there is any improvement. If there is, you can ratchet up *that* process - but I think the slow/fast alternation is crucial.
I think I will give the metronome a go! I took a couple lessons last year from Martha Masters and she had me doing exercises with the metronome to get better right hand technique and it did help! I hate to admit I let that practice strategy fall by the wayside. This will give me the kick in the pants to get back at it.

wannabe
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Re: Tremolo

Post by wannabe » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:39 pm

Tomzooki wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:28 pm
wannabe wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:10 pm
Recently I had two different instructors give me their opinion on the tremelo. One feels if you can't do it when you first attempt you will never get...
jpryan wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:27 pm
I'd recommend staying away from the first instructor. Keep working on it.
I agree; stay away of that teacher. If is was true probably no guitarist in the universe would be able to have a good tremolo.

But I would suggest to wait for a while before working on it. Instead work to get good right hand technique, particularily good arpegios. When you will have a good right hand technique, tremolo, which is in fact a « one string arpegio » will be very easy to achieve. In that sense your first instructor would be right, but I doubt it was the meaning of what he told you...
That really resonates with me, the comment on one string arpegio. My arpegios could certainly use some work. I do work on them every day but they are far from perfect. I find they decline when I use different notes because then I am focused on right and left hands. I am not that confident of my left fingers going to the right place.

D.Cass
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Re: Tremolo

Post by D.Cass » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:17 pm

My humble opinion is that the tremolo will improve in time with proper practice. However, if you have been playing the guitar for 2 1/2 years I wouldn’t be concerned with it. There are so many more important things to cultivate in the 1st two years than the tremolo. The most important thing I think one should focus on in the 1st 2 years should be fretboard knowledge and theory. A complete fluency in Scales in all 5 positions and chord voicings in all 5 positions and in all keys. This will make your life so much easier in the future if you haven’t mastered it.

Todd Tipton
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Re: Tremolo

Post by Todd Tipton » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:38 am

Yes, tremolo requires lots of work for most people. However, tremolo is also a product of a well developed right hand technique. I have had many students walk in my studio wanting help with tremolo. In my decades of teaching, there was never a single incident where the student seeking tremolo help had a good right hand foundation. Usually, it was many things that needed refinement in various right hand movements.

There are so many things that have to be developed with various right hand patterns. There are particular sympathetic movements where fingers learn to work together. There are particular opposing movements where one finger must flex while another extends and vice versa. This is necessary preparation for learning the difference between walking and running. It is a delicate procedure to approach in lessons because each student is unique. As an extreme example, some students benefit from a very detailed and contrived practice of these slow movements. For other students, the cure is worse than the disease: having a general understanding is necessary, but too much attention to details has the opposite effect. Regardless of HOW the topic is carefully approached, it is a foundation of "effortless" right hand playing.

Further, sometimes there is string crossing required demanding a mastery of subtle shifts from the elbow or shoulder similar to scale practice. Christopher Berg's Giuliani Revisited is a required book for all of my students, and is something I use myself every single day. Berg's revisions demand students and teachers together to investigate similar right hand patterns where fingers may or may not share the same string.

Then there are bursts or (sprints). Sometimes, these bursts help a student find some of the things I wrote above more naturally. Sometimes they come after some more fundamental careful study. Rhythmic variations play a similar role.

Tremolo requires and mastery of everything I have written above. And to repeat, it is merely a product OF that mastery. While tremolo certainly requires consistent work, it FIRST requires a very strong and well rounded right hand. With the guidance of a competent teacher, I believe Berg's work is a staple that must be on every students music stand. In addition, Stanley Yates' Classical Guitar Technique is a work that tries to put some of these ideas in writing, and also details some specific exercises helping students to better understand these foundations.

I don't know which teacher said the right or wrong thing; I wasn't there and I have no context. Quoted out of context, it is possible that I could have said either statement.

So, which teacher is correct? The one who emphasizes some of the ideas I wrote above and is constantly refining more basic movements.
Dr. Todd Tipton, classical guitarist
Cincinnati, OH, USA (available via Skype)

skyyanggt
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Re: Tremolo

Post by skyyanggt » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:34 am

Tremolo secrect is : When you on high speed, your a ,m finger should keep independent , so ,keep on practice!

davekear
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Location: California

Re: Tremolo

Post by davekear » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:22 am

Once the student has the basics down; a stable rest stroke and free stroke, then there is no problem with them working on their tremolo concurrent with any other technique. It can actually help with overall dexterity. As long as one realizes that it won't happen overnight, and that when they do practice a tremolo, that they need do it correctly. There's no reason why that shouldn't be allowed and encouraged. It's no more difficult than scales, apoyando picado, arpeggios, or anything else. It doesn't need to be given any special consideration above any other technique. Especially if the student really wants to learn it. (At least if the guitar police aren't around). :D

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Contreras
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Re: Tremolo

Post by Contreras » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:19 am

I don't go out of my way to learn tremolo pieces, but I have a couple. I never really got anywhere with it until I quit the standard a-m-i and went with i-m-i .... not the greatest tremolo, but if it's good enough for Vidovic ....
Put down the bagpipes ...
... and no one gets hurt.

Todd Tipton
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Re: Tremolo

Post by Todd Tipton » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:24 pm

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Dr. Todd Tipton, classical guitarist
Cincinnati, OH, USA (available via Skype)

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