Sor, and loving it

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
Forum rules
IV Laws governing the quotation/citation of music


For discussion of studies, scales, arpeggios and theory.
Cuyler

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Cuyler » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:42 pm

guff wrote:My 5 year old daughter is a big fan of Opus 35. No. 1. She asks for it by name.

I agree with the comments about #1 and 4, but am also particularly fond of #3 (known to the daughter as the "sad song").
I agree that Sor's Op.35 no. 1 is great piece. I started learning no. 3 because I liked the chord progression (it reminds me a little of Beethoven's 7th symphony). But I couldn't get the melody of 35 no. 1 out of my head and now it's the only piece I have completely committed to memory. It's so easy to play and it sounds great even when played slowly. It's fun and light-hearted compared to the melancholy no. 3.

I am still working on the study in B minor (35 no. 22). I have decided that barre chords are evil, but they are getting a little easier as time goes on. Eventually, I hope to play them all.

John Aguilera

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by John Aguilera » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:00 pm

I am working on 17 and and 22 (Opus 35) - and I love it - they are both great but I am having a tough time getting 17 to sound "graceful", right now it is a little choppy, actually pretty choppy. I have a decent handle on 22 already... I have been working on both of these for 2 months :roll:

okdaysdays
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:12 am

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by okdaysdays » Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:56 am

freestroke wrote:
boral wrote:
boral wrote:Are the choice of 20 etudes of Sor by Segovia arranged in a progressive way ?
By progressive I meant "gradual"; from less difficult to difficult
It's been discussed here, but possibly on a deleted cafe thread or something. They are sort of in order, but I guess it's whether a particular study addresses something you have a knack for or not. Some say No1 is a level 9, some say a level 3; I know it's the first one I learned, bu if you do all the muting necessary to play it well, it gets pretty tough, while merely hitting all the notes is pretty easy. No 2 and 3 are very easy, if you ask me, 4 is sort of like a harder version of 3, 5 and 6 only fractionally harder. No 9 is easier than 7 or 8 for me. I'd say that 10 and 11 are of similar difficulty, but I think 10 is harder to play well. No 12 is not all that bad at slow pace, but I could never get it up to anything like a decent speed -- not that I worked on it much. No 13 is easier than any since No 6 and remains one of my staple pieces to this day. No 14 is harder than 15, 16 is starting to get up there, and the final three are quite a bit harder than the first three, no doubt. Once upon a time, I could get through No 20 clean, but there was a lot of tension and effort and it sounded like crap -- at the time I couldn't handle No 19 at all. I still can't seem to play 19 for some reason, maybe because I've got too many neurons dedicated to doing it wrong at this point. :lol: Fortunately, my return to No 17 recently has gone a lot better. :D
yes 17 is an easy piece i think, nothing really hard about it at all...its just a bit long

User avatar
Daan Hoeksema
Posts: 330
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:28 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Daan Hoeksema » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:06 pm

Has anybody ever played opus 45 nr 5? I am studying it now and it is really a nice work in what Sor named an opus for people who didn't have the right atitude to study.

Daan
Het veulen dat haar moeder naar de slacht zag gaan. "Hou je taai mam".

Bouke

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Bouke » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:07 pm

At the moment opus 6 #12 (Segovia 14) and opus 29 #13 (Segovia 19) are killing my fingers. Very hard to get fluent.
Very odd as pieces like Tarrega's Estudio Brilliante or Pujol's Canto de Otono give me less trouble.

MisterB

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by MisterB » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:56 pm

Cuyler wrote:I ordered the Chanterelle edition of Fernando Sor -- The Complete Studies for Guitar and am quite happy with it. While some of the studies are more challenging, quite a few that are suitable for beginners. I don't know if there is any great advantage to owning the urtext edition, but the book does have a few pages of additional material. One of them is a suggested grading by Richard Savino. Opp. 6 and 29 are the most difficult,
Ha! No wonder I can't play them! I have the Chanterelle version, too, and like a fool I thought I'd just start at the beginning, and what comes first? Opus 6.
I nearly dropped dead when I heard them played up to speed on Naxos. Maybe I should have checked out Savino's comments first :-(

ufaf637

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by ufaf637 » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:47 pm

I've purchased Mel Bay's Complete Sor Studies as a training track. I've started at page one (OP 60 #1) and just worked each piece over and over again, focusing on fingering (tips, not pads), smooth transitions, keeping each finger planted till needed elsewhere to released, hearing each note as a single even tone compared to each other - very mechanical in nature at this point. Just working technique.

As I learn (memorize) each piece and I'm comfortable with all my technique - making sure I'm not taking shortcuts, etc - I'm beginning to put some emotion and feeling to each piece. The part that I'm missing is tempo. I'm not sure how each piece is "supposed" to sound. Is it a matter of interpretation or is there a desired tempo to work towards. Also none of the pieces has fingering. I've worked out *my* fingering, and assume it is OK, but I could be completely wrong.

I started a few weeks ago and am currently on OP 60 #13.


Does this approach to practicing sor - using as a vehicle to hone mechanics, technique, tone, etc - as well as working to make each piece a performance piece no mater how simple a workable approach to Sor? I'm loving each and every piece. I'm trying to get to where I can play each piece at a reasonable temp at least 10 times with no mechanical mistakes before I move on to the next. Then I play each previous piece as a warm up to the next.

Looking for your expert advice to my approach to the Master. I didn't pick up CG until I was 47, so I'm way behind and the simplest moves takes me much longer to master - old man's syndrom. I just turned 49 Sunday and have tinkered for 1.5 years, but am now focused. Sergovia, here I come (in my dreams).
Thanks

David McHarg

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by David McHarg » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:52 pm

Sor, Guiliani, Carcassi etc etc all very good and certainly can't hurt you. I would not restrict yourself to just Sor but
instead try to pick a selection across them all as they all offer different things. As you mentioned don't forget
to really focus on your tone and overall sound. Whilst many folks view Sor, Carcassi etc as studies or learning
material they are also great pieces and as much as mastering the technical aspects of these pieces you want
to make them musical and sound great.If your teaching yourself then its not a bad idea to perhaps pick
some books like Fredrich Noad, or Sagreras etc as these will offer a nice progressive approach which you can
add to with your Sor complete studies.

Cheers
David

rhilapse

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by rhilapse » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:13 am

Oh, those barre chords ... they sound beautiful, but I think my left hand has blown up from all the usage it's been getting!! Haha

User avatar
mverive
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:55 am
Location: Houghton, MI

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by mverive » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:39 am

ufaf637 wrote:I've purchased Mel Bay's Complete Sor Studies as a training track. I've started at page one (OP 60 #1) and just worked each piece over and over again, focusing on fingering (tips, not pads), smooth transitions, keeping each finger planted till needed elsewhere to released, hearing each note as a single even tone compared to each other - very mechanical in nature at this point. Just working technique.

As I learn (memorize) each piece and I'm comfortable with all my technique - making sure I'm not taking shortcuts, etc - I'm beginning to put some emotion and feeling to each piece. The part that I'm missing is tempo. I'm not sure how each piece is "supposed" to sound. Is it a matter of interpretation or is there a desired tempo to work towards. Also none of the pieces has fingering. I've worked out *my* fingering, and assume it is OK, but I could be completely wrong.

I started a few weeks ago and am currently on OP 60 #13.


Does this approach to practicing sor - using as a vehicle to hone mechanics, technique, tone, etc - as well as working to make each piece a performance piece no mater how simple a workable approach to Sor? I'm loving each and every piece. I'm trying to get to where I can play each piece at a reasonable temp at least 10 times with no mechanical mistakes before I move on to the next. Then I play each previous piece as a warm up to the next.

Looking for your expert advice to my approach to the Master. I didn't pick up CG until I was 47, so I'm way behind and the simplest moves takes me much longer to master - old man's syndrom. I just turned 49 Sunday and have tinkered for 1.5 years, but am now focused. Sergovia, here I come (in my dreams).
Thanks
If you really want to get an idea of how the pieces are "supposed" to sound, then take a look at the various CD's featuring Sor music at NAXOS. Opus 60 (along with 58 and 59) were recorded by Nicholas Goluses, and are available on the same CD. I find these CD's indispensible for use as teaching aids. I'm pretty good at sight-reading, and can "hear" most relatively easy pieces in my mind simply by looking at them, but there's nothing like hearing a professional recording. Even then, however, some of the pieces are at tempos different from the score as written. It's partly a matter of interpretation, so don't worry too much about matching another player's tempo exactly.

I am also 49, and have been playing CG seriously now for about 2 years, focusing much of my attention on Sor pieces, as well as Giuliani, Carcassi, Aguado, and even some Mozart, Beethoven, and others. Working too much with a single composer's material might help you play *that* composer's music, but a better approach for developing well-rounded technique would be to play music from several composers, borrowing from each what fits you best. Professional instruction, even if just to get yourself on the right foot, can do wonders to fight years of non-CG technique, and will help you develop a solid foundation from which to build.

Learning CG isn't a destination, it's a journey. Enjoy the view!

Mike
"(P)Lay on, MacDuff, And damn'd be him that first cries, 'Hold, enough!'"

Luckynp

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Luckynp » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:32 pm

I've loved Sor since I bought an album of John Williams playing the 20 Segovia studies around 45 years ago. The sleeve notes contained Segovia's praise of Williams (God has placed a finger on his brow, etc.) It's what first turned me on to CG. I wish I could find a copy of this album now.

dsj52

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by dsj52 » Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:51 pm

My instructor recently started me on the 20 studies, and it is just great. Very nice change from what I had been doing!

Cuyler

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Cuyler » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:58 pm

Image

I think I found William's recording: Twenty Studies for Guitar originally published by Westminster in 1963 and re-issued by EMI in 1967. Apparently the LP has not been published digitally. Somebody must have a copy — maybe it can be borrowed from a library somewhere?

wazoo

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by wazoo » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:53 am

I've been playing Op. 6 No. 8 (Estudio 1 in the Segovia Sor book) for the past few months and learn something new every time I play it. I'm just beginning Estudio 5, or Op. 35. No. 22. I enjoy learning the Sor studies.

Waz

Rainwater

Re: Sor, and loving it

Post by Rainwater » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:24 am

Wow..everyone here is ahead of me. I'm learning and starting to play the no. 4 of opus 60 and 44. Beginner stuff. I also play some Guiliani etudes. I must say that I find Sor's etudes enchanting to play, and I can't wait to progress through them to be able to play some of the etudes one would consider pieces for a repetoire.

Return to “Classical Guitar technique”