Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Marius-Poland

Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Marius-Poland » Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:12 pm

In my opinion Kitharologus is a very good way to everyday practice. I am a bit more than a beginner and I would like to know opinions from people who has used Iznaola`s Kitharologus for some time. From those of you who has finished all the book especially.
Do you think I should dedicate all my practice time only for exercises from Kitharologus or should practice scales, chords etc. too. I mean but my work about my repertoire of course.
I will be really greatfull for suggestions.

AsturiasFan

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby AsturiasFan » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:59 am

I have no idea what you should do. I really like Iznaola's arpeggios, which includes string crossings, skipping fingers, and violations of the usual rules. I enjoy playing just one bar over and over to get it faster and faster. He only has three arpeggio pages, the third of which is the most advanced.

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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby LVR » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:33 am

I think it's a fine book and most useful in conjunction with other books and exercises. I don't know about using it alone. I'm very far from an expert in teaching guitar however.
The basic thing about playing the guitar is the pleasure you get from it. There's nothing wrong with pleasure is there?
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby dcarlso3 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:05 am

IMHO...useless. Practice music if you want to play music.

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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby BugDog » Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:04 pm

I have been using Kitharologus for awhile now. I'm up to level 4 and starting to get a grip on it. I think it's a great book, some of the exercises are borderline magic. I can't imagine finishing it in my lifetime though.

That said, I do mix it up with stuff from other places. Presently I alternate between Kitharologus and Delcamp D04 exercises with a little of this and that thrown in.

There seem to be two schools of thought about exercises. One side says turn the music into an exercise. The other side says take exercises and make them sound musical. This is a pretty contentious issue, sort of like free stroke vs. rest stroke. :lol:

I don't mind the exercises, kind of like them actually. Sort of like meditation. Technique improves and the music doesn't suffer.
BugDog
There's one in every crowd.

KenK

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby KenK » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:38 pm

dcarlso3 wrote:IMHO...useless. Practice music if you want to play music.

Hi dcarlso3

Most people don't have such a strong negative opinion about it.
Useless? Why do you think it's useless?

I used it or a while and found that I was improving at a much faster rate.
I stopped because I was spending too much time on it.
This is apparently a common problem w/ people using the routines.
There's another Kitharologus thread,
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48660
in which Mr. Iznaola is quoted,
"The marked repetitions are all that are needed."

That was likely my problem.
Maybe it's time to revisit the routines.

KenK

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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Robin » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:52 pm

dcarlso3 wrote:IMHO...useless. Practice music if you want to play music.


Dear dcarlso3,

I respect your opinion to determine the use of Kitharologous (or perhaps isolated technique practice in general) useless. I agree that playing music is the end goal. Technical elements can be extracted from pieces and used to develop a particular issue. However, I have two points to offer:

Each learner is different--and each individual may have different learning needs at various times in their development. The demands on the learner's skill base are challenged by their goals. I believe individuals should strive for the best technical development possible but the demands on the technique of a recreational player are different from those of a professional player. They are also judged by different standards.

A year ago I had the opportunity to audition for eligibility for the completion of my music degree. I failed--and miserably. Not because I hadn't practiced endless hours, not because I hadn't performed these pieces in public before but because under the pressure of instense scrutiny, the underlying weaknesses of my technique caused me to lose confidence and it all fell apart.

I have since taken a new look at the application of technique--this includes the use of Kitharologous and Pumping Nylon, Carlevaro and some others. As I fortify my core technique, my playing gets much better. My hands are better synchronized, my left hand (which was tight) is now loose and supple and learning to articulate, my right hand (which was loose) is now more in control and allows me to add dynamics to my playing which I was unable to do well prior to this. I am moving beyond my former tempo barriers and having success playing music at and above suggested tempos. Most importantly, I'm beginning to be able to relax and just enjoy the music while I play. I'm starting to test these things under performance pressure--so far so good. I hope to reapply to school in the spring.

My second point is that as a teacher, having knowledge of how each element of technique is developed is vital. I need to have, at my disposal, an arsenal of tools to help my students progress. If they don't have a problem, then I don't need to fix it--but if they do, I need to help them over the hurdle. I think Kitharologous, in particular, is takes a methodical and gentle approach to the development of technique. If a student can develop skills from the bottom up, it may help them avoid problems later when the music gets harder and the demands increase.

Do I apply this apart from music? No. Each and every "exercise" is used in conjunction with pieces we work on. I point out how the core skills relate to the music and make their playing stronger.

In conclusion, I respect your opinion but I don't think that just "playing music" will work for everybody in every situation.

Respectfully,

Robin
So much music, so little time.

paulcroft

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby paulcroft » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:06 pm

Robin wrote:
In conclusion, I respect your opinion but I don't think that just "playing music" will work for everybody in every situation.



I think that's unnecessarily generous of you Robin. My own respect is saved for someone such as Ricardo iznaola - a wonderful musician and guitarist who has also made an extraordinary contribution to the guitar as a highly analytical and intelligent teacher - rather than someone who casually disparages his work with the single word "useless".

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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Robin » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:27 pm

PaulCroft wrote:
Robin wrote:
In conclusion, I respect your opinion but I don't think that just "playing music" will work for everybody in every situation.



I think that's unnecessarily generous of you Robin. My own respect is saved for someone such as Ricardo iznaola - a wonderful musician and guitarist who has also made an extraordinary contribution to the guitar as a highly analytical and intelligent teacher - rather than someone who casually disparages his work with the single word "useless".


Maybe so, Paul. I don't know the reasons behind deeming a quality piece of guitar research and application "useless." I have to believe the poster has one to make such a strong statement. I'd like to give him the "benefit of the doubt." I hope dcarlso3 will return to this thread to share his reasoning behind this statement.

Robin
So much music, so little time.

dcarlso3
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby dcarlso3 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:24 pm

I used this material for well over a year and used it exactly as prescribed. I didn't gain any improvement in playing the pieces I was playing at the time, nor any advancement towards more advanced pieces that I would have liked to have played. I started taking lessons, and in less time than I spent on Kitharologus I am not only advancing toward playing pieces but actually playing them, such as hvl etude 1, choro no. 1, 5 preludes, leyenda, recuerdos, capricho arabe. In addition to this, I have a dozen or so nice etudes that I can play, all of which were employed to get me to where I currently am.

The op is asking for opinions, and I stated mine which is based on my own experience with this material. To restate my opinion, there are far, far more productive and satisfying ways to spend your playing time.

When I first started lessons, I met with my teacher and went over the things I was working on and they asked me what I found to be quite an enlightening question: "So when someone asks you to play something for them on your guitar, do you play them an arpeggio exercise or do you play a few scales?"

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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Jeff Robertson » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:51 pm

dcarlso3 wrote:IMHO...useless. Practice music if you want to play music.


Just as man cannot live by bread alone...the classical guitarist cannot improve (as the same pace) through playing music alone.

I like the book and took from it what I felt would help me play my rep. better.
----------------------------------------------
Jeff Robertson
aka TheGuitarAficionado (e - b a y)
"Believe that you are and you will be"

Robin
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Robin » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:20 am

dcarlso3 wrote:I used this material for well over a year and used it exactly as prescribed. I didn't gain any improvement in playing the pieces I was playing at the time, nor any advancement towards more advanced pieces that I would have liked to have played. I started taking lessons, and in less time than I spent on Kitharologus I am not only advancing toward playing pieces but actually playing them, such as hvl etude 1, choro no. 1, 5 preludes, leyenda, recuerdos, capricho arabe. In addition to this, I have a dozen or so nice etudes that I can play, all of which were employed to get me to where I currently am.

The op is asking for opinions, and I stated mine which is based on my own experience with this material. To restate my opinion, there are far, far more productive and satisfying ways to spend your playing time.

When I first started lessons, I met with my teacher and went over the things I was working on and they asked me what I found to be quite an enlightening question: "So when someone asks you to play something for them on your guitar, do you play them an arpeggio exercise or do you play a few scales?"


I, for one, appreciate your reply. This is far more informative than your original statement and is a useful perspective to consider.

Again, I really believe that we need different things at different times on our musical journey. Your teacher was able to help you navigate to a more musically satisfying place. This is the art of teaching at its best.

Robin
So much music, so little time.

dcarlso3
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby dcarlso3 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:35 pm

Robin wrote:Again, I really believe that we need different things at different times on our musical journey.


Perhaps this is so ( you being a teacher would know more than I do about it) and perhaps I pursued this material at a point where it was a distraction to what I wanted to accomplish rather than a means by which to get there.

RashJoe

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby RashJoe » Tue Nov 23, 2010 5:10 pm

I am 66 and just learning to play. I have a great instructor but found myself overloaded and jumping around with so much to learn. This practice method seemed so well planned that I couldn't fail. Well, I did. It was too technical for me and took too much of my allotted time. I wanted to include some music. I think this is for someone who wants to master the classical guitar and means it. I just hope to play well into my retirement. I am in the process of developing my own practice schedule using his other books.

Masa

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Masa » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:43 pm

I am 45 and just learning to play too. I have used the book for about five months, for a supplemental practice before practicing a music piece. It’s probably 10 minutes a day. So far it works to me very well. I appreciate my instructor recommending the book.

Here is a beginner’s view point on the book.

1. Psychologically or mentally it is my “Evening Meditation Time” after a long day work. I just quietly focus on sound quality and a simple movement of my hands without thinking any other things. An occasional good sound or smooth movement of hands gives me an “Aha!” moment. I have a small discovery at every practice.

2. Physically or mechanically it is my “Warm-up Time” before a music practice. I need it especially in a cold winter day. I am hoping that each exercise would develop a muscle and flexibility of my hands though, occasionally I feel stiffness or pain on my hands. Then I ask a suggestion to my instructor. Her advice gives me another “Aha!” moment.

I am just enjoying such “Aha!” moments through the book.
masa


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