Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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ronjazz
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby ronjazz » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:25 pm

Denian, it would seem that you are correct, in that one could hardly achieve the level of #1 in the world without the talent to do so, and talent implies both mental and physical gifts beyond the ordinary. Combining the gifts with good coaching and practice habits leads to the top, in virtually any individual field of endeavor in sports or music. I think it's counter-productive to think that someone without a real well of talent could achieve the heights that the greats do just by lots of practicing.

Also, in my opinion, Kitharologues is a very good tutor.
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Curbudog

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Curbudog » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:58 am

I think that if I could diligently follow the practice routines in Kitharologues I probably would have been able to graduate from college much faster than I did.

Lots of helpful stuff but for me it was a bit overwhelming.

goldenmaster

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby goldenmaster » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:37 am

I think that it is a good book, if you don't overdo it, like others have mentioned. Also, I'll just mention that it helps to go over the book with a teacher. I was doing some exercises from the book independently, and when I played them with my teacher he had a lot of helpful comments about how to practice them more productively, in addition to correcting how I was playing them wrong :wink:

Jon Griffiths
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Jon Griffiths » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:00 pm

The first 10 or so exercises sound like water torture though. The wife would gladly burn the book lol

Scott Moncrieff

Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Scott Moncrieff » Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:06 pm

Kitharologus, level IV, p. 38. These arpeggio exercises say half note equals 40-80, and in the first line you have groups of 5, 6, and 7 notes in each half measure. So you're supposed to be able to get up to playing, at the highest of those markings, 7 notes in one metronome beat at 80? Wow. That's a big jump from level three which I completed. I've been working a couple weeks and am just up to 40 on the first exercise, with 5 notes per click at 40. Hello perserverance. I do like K, though, because it puts a healthy diet of rh/lh development exercises in front of me, all nicely grouped by level in a small spiral bound. Also, the non-musicality of the exercises helps me concentrate on just the technical aspects, be it clean slurs, relaxed shoulders, smooth shifts, or whatever.

ianconrad
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby ianconrad » Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:59 pm

I have just bought Kitharologus. It makes sense to me, to critically look at perhaps a life time of wisdom contained in the book.
As an older player this must be the quickest way of moving forward rather than just blindly trying to figure out ones technical mistakes. Even with a good teacher for me the moment of comprehension often takes a wile to sink in. Looking at the issue from different aspects seem to enhance this understanding.

Steve Langham
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Steve Langham » Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:46 am

I think with this book there is a natural tendency to rush your way through the exercises so you can progress up the levels and feel good about yourself.
My teacher said that it could be good to just think of the whole book as a lifetime of exercises and pick just one or two and slowly work on them and do it in a more relaxed manner. I think this is good advice.

dtoh
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby dtoh » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:53 pm

I've used Izanola's book quite a lot. I may just be particularly uncoordinated, but it took me a couple of years to get through the basic exercises in the first level. Once you have achieved reasonable competence in the skills in Level 1, I found the rest of the book to be a lot easier assuming you know the fretboard well enough to sight read the exercises.

guit-box
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby guit-box » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:09 pm

I can see nothing wrong with the book, it's a great piece of work, and if you have the kind of personality to sit and work with it religiously, I'm sure great results are possible. However, if it's not for you, there certainly are other ways to become a good or great player. I wonder if we asked the past 10 years of top players who have won the GFA what methods they used how many would say they used Kitharologus. I'm guessing very little, which tells you there are many other ways to greatness. I've been to master classes where the teachers said they didn't practice exercises. Odair Assad said he always felt like he was wasting time practicing scales and exercises, but then said that of course he practiced the scales that were in the music.

In my experience many people don't know how to take the piece they are working on and turn it into 100s of exercises. All the exercises you need to play that piece are in the music you're playing if you find them. Make sure all your fingerings are notated. Then, make an exercise out of repeating small sections that contain a transition. Sometimes this is just 1 measure plus a beat. Then two measures. Then the next measure and a beat. continue. Work on each chunk until you can play it 8 times without a mistake, then move on to the next chunk. String smaller sections into phrases, but always focus on repeating things that have transitions because that's where the difficulty lies -- chord changes, shifts, string changes, etc. Be sure to memorize the chunks so you can observe each hand separately and fix problems you see. If you practice many differing etudes and pieces, this kind of practicing effectively presents you with all the different techniques required to play music on the guitar. And you're not wasting time on techniques that are outside your repertoire. I'm not ant-method books or exercises, I do some of that too, but I prefer this approach to get the result I'm looking for, which is playing music.
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kaizengtr
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby kaizengtr » Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:32 pm

Personally I love the book. Maybe it just fits in with how my mind (and hands) work. I don't, however, work through it to master the material. I use it more as a reference to work through the core elements of technique for which I think it is well organized. I find with guitar, as with any other 'learned' skill, focusing at least a portion of your time on core technique will always have a positive effect on your playing (whether it be a sport, an instrument, or a computer language). I'm also a big fan of deliberate practice and I think this book fits in well with that philosophy.

I also am fortunate to be studying with a teacher who studied directly under Mr. Iznaola so he has helped me decipher some of the more cryptic exercises in a way that makes them useful.

As has also been mentioned, there are so many useful instructional methods out there that if you find Kitharologus to be too onerous or unfriendly, you have many other options to choose from.

Good luck!
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Dirck Nagy
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Dirck Nagy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:08 am

guit-box wrote:... it's a great piece of work, and if you have the kind of personality to sit and work with it religiously, I'm sure great results are possible...
...


I agree. Echoing some of the other comments and Iznaola himself, I think its important to use Kitharologos the way it was designed to be used.

guit-box wrote:...However, if it's not for you, there certainly are other ways to become a good or great player. I wonder if we asked the past 10 years of top players who have won the GFA what methods they used how many would say they used Kitharologus. I'm guessing very little, which tells you there are many other ways to greatness.
...


...(But to Iznaola's credit, some very very good players have been part of his studio. No GFA winners to the best of my knowledge, but that isnt everything!)

cheers!
dirck
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guit-box
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby guit-box » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:26 am

Dirck Nagy wrote:...(But to Iznaola's credit, some very very good players have been part of his studio. No GFA winners to the best of my knowledge, but that isnt everything!)


True, I don't doubt it, I'm just not that familiar with him and his students. I've attended one master class and performance. You make a good point, can you name some of his students who are very very good players?
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

Dirck Nagy
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Dirck Nagy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:27 am

guit-box wrote:
Dirck Nagy wrote:...(But to Iznaola's credit, some very very good players have been part of his studio. No GFA winners to the best of my knowledge, but that isnt everything!)


True, I don't doubt it, I'm just not that familiar with him and his students. I've attended one master class and performance. You make a good point, can you name some of his students who are very very good players?

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guit-box
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby guit-box » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:00 am

Masa Ito
Jonathan Leathwood
Scott Sanchez


Thanks, I always like discovering new players I haven't heard. I own Ito's technique dvd and loaned it to my former teacher and posted some clips on a right hand technique thread on delcamp. I thought he was pretty good and didn't mind his bright tone (much like Iznaola) but people on the forum tore him to threads for it.


Ito seems to have a steel string approach to tone--very bright and snappy.

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Dirck Nagy
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Re: Your opinion about Kitharologus by R. Iznaola please.

Postby Dirck Nagy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:52 am

guit-box wrote:... his bright tone (much like Iznaola)
...


From my far from infallible observations, Iznaola's tone changed dramatically during the 90s. The first time i saw him, it was very bright. It became quite full and round by about 1997, more in line with what the mainstream perceives as an "expressive" sound.

cheers!
dirck
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1994 Larry Breslin ("Deerhead")
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