Damping

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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Desperado
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Re: Damping

Post by Desperado » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:27 pm

Hany Hayek wrote:Okay gentlemen, back to my question since I revived the thread :)

Roll the thumb back onto the previous string to damp a lower note (string) (eg Play A damp E)

How do you do that ? I am working on D01 Ricercar. What I do to silence the E when I have to move to A is use the side of my thumb (at first joint) to damp it. Is this correct.
If you can. It seems the length of the thumb and the angle at which you have right hand has an influence on how well you can do this. Personally, I have a short thumb and tend to use my nose to stop extraneous noises. :lol:

robert e
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Re: Damping

Post by robert e » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:36 pm

Hany Hayek wrote:Okay gentlemen, back to my question since I revived the thread :)

Roll the thumb back onto the previous string to damp a lower note (string) (eg Play A damp E)

How do you do that ? I am working on D01 Ricercar. What I do to silence the E when I have to move to A is use the side of my thumb (at first joint) to damp it. Is this correct.
It's an option. And so is using a left hand finger. But "rolling" back is probably best. By that, I think Richard meant: in one circular motion (as seen from the nut looking at the bridge), the thumb sounds the A and circles back to rest on the E. This can be done very quickly.

You can see Prof. Delcamp doing that on Ricercar here:

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=102092

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markodarko
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Re: Damping

Post by markodarko » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:06 pm

Hany Hayek wrote:Okay gentlemen, back to my question since I revived the thread :)

Roll the thumb back onto the previous string to damp a lower note (string) (eg Play A damp E)

How do you do that ? I am working on D01 Ricercar. What I do to silence the E when I have to move to A is use the side of my thumb (at first joint) to damp it. Is this correct.
I've just taken a look at the music. If I'm not mistaken you are referring to bars 6 > 7, is that correct? In that instance you would damp the E string at the same time as playing the A string by lowering the side of your thumb onto it as you plant the A.

I can shoot a short video if it helps.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

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Hany Hayek
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Re: Damping

Post by Hany Hayek » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:52 pm

Thanks Robert, now I know what rolling the thumb means, will try to work on it but sounds difficult to do fast.
Thanks Markodarko, lowering the side of the thumb is what I came up with, but gives a weird shape to my finger as I play the A. A video would really help

robert e
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Re: Damping

Post by robert e » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:24 pm

You're welcome, Hany. Don't worry too much about the shape of the motion, the thumb will naturally take an elliptical/circular path. It will feel awkward at first, but after three or five sessions where you focus on it for a time, you'll hardly have to think about it. Make sure your right hand position remains steady and stable. Try to make the motion quick while maintaining control and landing lightly--it ends with a touch, not a press. If you like, make an exercise of just playing the A and moving to the E, play D and move to A, etc.

You will be clumsy at first. Over time, your brain will assimilate feedback from your thumb and make the motion more efficient and the weight more precise, but that takes a few sessions at least.

Luis_Br
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Re: Damping

Post by Luis_Br » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:15 am

When going from E to A open strings, I sometimes dampen with thumb side, but most of the times I prefer to play the A and quickly go back with the thumb to E string right after (as mentioned by Robert). Besides technique, and most importantly, there are musical reasons for choosign the technique. I like this latter technique basically for two reasons: allows better thumb tone with more frontal attack (ratther than the lateral attack to allow thumb side dampening) and the second reason is that allowing a very small moment (milliseconds) of both strings ringing at the same time before dampening the E results in more legato sound of the bass passage. It also depends the musical context. If I want a staccato result, maybe I would dampen with thumb side, sometimes dampening before playing A, while thumb is planting over A string, sometimes dampening right before playing A, at the start of A pluck movement. So it is about articulation control and the more different techniques you have in your pocket, the more articulation variety you can achieve.
In the famous video "The Segovia Style" by Eliot Fisk, there is a passage he explains and shows different ways of dampening and he shows this more legato result from dampening a bit late in comparison with the other way (thumbside technique).

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markodarko
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Re: Damping

Post by markodarko » Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:13 pm

Hany Hayek wrote:A video would really help
No problem. Here you go...


Youtube


Is that what you meant?
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

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Hany Hayek
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Re: Damping

Post by Hany Hayek » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:18 pm

Markodarko, this is great. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thanks to all for the feedback and great advise.

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markodarko
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Re: Damping

Post by markodarko » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:23 pm

No problem. Best of luck with your piece.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

robert e
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Re: Damping

Post by robert e » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:29 pm

Marko, you're a pip! :bravo:
Luis_Br wrote:... most importantly, there are musical reasons for choosign the technique... So it is about articulation control and the more different techniques you have in your pocket, the more articulation variety you can achieve.
In the famous video "The Segovia Style" by Eliot Fisk, there is a passage he explains and shows different ways of dampening and he shows this more legato result from dampening a bit late in comparison with the other way (thumbside technique).
Thanks for the tip about the video--I'd never heard of it. Otherwise, I agree completely. As long as we're going into rationale, I'll point out that the slight hand displacement I require in order to damp with the side of my thumb necessarily affects all fingers, which in some cases is problematic. This will depend on individual anatomy and technique, but for me it's another reason to favor the "rolling back" option as a default.

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markodarko
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Re: Damping

Post by markodarko » Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:32 pm

robert e wrote:Marko, you're a pip! :bravo:
Thanks, Robert. One day I hope to grow into a nice juicy apple. :mrgreen:
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

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Yisrael van Handel
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Duplicate submission deleted.

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:00 pm

Duplicate submission deleted.
Last edited by Yisrael van Handel on Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Damping

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:03 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:Damping is necessary for good musical articulation (otherwise you playing will sound like a hammered dulcimer). I learned for a long time without damping, and it is very hard for me now to develop an adequate damping strategy. I find it mentally very taxing to have to both play and dampen simultaneously. Personally, I think it is the single hardest aspect of guitar technique.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

robert e
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Re: Damping

Post by robert e » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:11 pm

Yisrael van Handel wrote:Damping is necessary for good musical articulation (otherwise you playing will sound like a hammered dulcimer). I learned for a long time without damping, and it is very hard for me now to develop an adequate damping strategy. I find it mentally very taxing to have to both play and dampen simultaneously. Personally, I think it is the single hardest aspect of guitar technique.
I'm a remedial damper as well. What's sort of made it easier for me recently is that after carefully watching many elite players and consulting with an instructor, I've decided that it's best practice for the thumb to be touching a string whenever possible. That is, instantly following any task, the thumb should move to touch a string. That next string will be, in order of preference: a string that needs damping; the next string the thumb will play (if inactive); another inactive string (obviously, any string that should be vibrating is off limits). It's paradoxical, but within the context of trying to make that part of my RH technique, mere damping seems less daunting. I'll do this with other fingers as well, but more as preference than policy.

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: Damping

Post by Yisrael van Handel » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:02 pm

robert e wrote: I've decided that it's best practice for the thumb to be touching a string whenever possible.
Hi, Robert.
Thanks for joining the discussion. I also discovered that thumb damping is the least mental strain. I use it extensively. I wouldn't go so far as to touch as many strings as possible when using the thumb, but certainly do that if the strings need to be damped (is that the right word?). I find it much more challenging to use other fingers of either the right hand or the left hand. It is not just another finger playing, but the motion is exactly the opposite of the motions for which the fingers are naturally and extensively trained. I find that a huge mental strain when I am playing.
Yisrael van Handel
Modi'in Ilit, Israel

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