Swing?

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wolfgang

Swing?

Post by wolfgang » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:11 am

Can I play the 3rd part of Barrios Choro de Saudade in major with a swing? Well, I can, but should I? :roll:

leyenda

Re: Swing?

Post by leyenda » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:42 am

probably not. If barrios wanted the rhythm of the choro distorted i'm sure he would have played or written the piece differently. :(

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Re: Swing?

Post by Ramon Amira » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:14 pm

No - I'm monogamous . . .

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Fredonia_Guitar_11

Re: Swing?

Post by Fredonia_Guitar_11 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:54 pm

It depends on what you want to do as a performer. Barrios almost certainly did not want the Choro to be "swung," but who is to say that you have to play every piece exactly the way that the composer intended. So, I guess whether or not it is right or wrong comes down to a choice you make in your intention. If you are intending to play the piece as the composer intended, then the swung eights would be wrong. However, if your intention is to play it in a way that hasn't been done before, because you think it should be swung, then it isn't wrong at all. You are just making an interpretive choice. An extreme one it may be in this case, but if music is only correct if it is perfectly mimicking the score, then anytime a performer plays piano when it isn't marked or decided to play a short note that isn't indicated they would be wrong.

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Malcolm Kavalsky
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Re: Swing?

Post by Malcolm Kavalsky » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:21 pm

wolfgang wrote:Can I play the 3rd part of Barrios Choro de Saudade in major with a swing? Well, I can, but should I? :roll:
Absolutely, if you enjoy it, go for it. I often play Bach in swing time. Prelude from BWV 998, can be a lot of fun, this way.
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Re: Swing?

Post by ronjazz » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:49 pm

There's a video on youtube of Yamandu playing one of the Villa-Lobos choros (schottische, maybe) in swing time with a bass guitarist. It's very compelling, maybe the musical equivalent of Picasso's cubism.
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wolfgang

Re: Swing?

Post by wolfgang » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:00 pm

Thanks very much for your opinions! I need to check out the Yamandu video as well.

Best wishes
Wolfgang

wolfgang

Re: Swing?

Post by wolfgang » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:04 pm

As for the video: I do like it :) Yet I feel less like playing the Barrios choro as swing.

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Re: Swing?

Post by Luis_Br » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:00 pm

I don't know what you mean by swing. Is there a general concept?

What I can tell is the the choro has its own "swing", which is different from other styles "swing" (like a vienense walz "swing", or a jazz "swing").
As a Brazilian who is used to listen to popular choro music, I would say, for example, that Julian Bream playing Villa-Lobos Choros no1 has nothing to do with a choro swing. It does not mean his interpretation is really bad, it is just "out of style".
Barrios lived in Brazil for a long time and I bet he would play it with the proper "choro-swing" as he demonstrated a lot of swing on all dances and popular styles he had recorded.
I think Yamandu performance in the schotisch is similar to what a choro player from Brazil's early 1900's would do in the rhythm, mixed up with some modern jazzy-style improvisation. Villa-Lobos composed it in his early years, so maybe this kind of swing is very close to the style intended by Villa-Lobos. The choro is a popular style, with a lot of improvisation and its own "swing" and it is not exactly the same nowaday that it was in early 1900's. So that is the reason Yamandu does not follow the score like a classical musician would do it.
Here you will find some nice explanation about choro-style improvisation with audio samples:
http://www.choromusic.com/como-se-toca-o-choro_in.htm

By the way, I've recently discovered from Fabio Zanon that Villa-Lobos schottish theme is from a piece by Ernest Shand.

cheers,
Luis

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Re: Swing?

Post by Erik Zurcher » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:12 pm

ronjazz wrote:There's a video on youtube of Yamandu playing one of the Villa-Lobos choros (schottische, maybe) in swing time with a bass guitarist. It's very compelling, maybe the musical equivalent of Picasso's cubism.
Doesn't do it for me. In my opinion, this beautiful piece is downgraded to elevator music.
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Re: Swing?

Post by JohnRoss » Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:43 pm

Luis_Br wrote:I don't know what you mean by swing. Is there a general concept?
Only dividing the crotchet into triplet quavers. If the rhythm is defined as swing, two consecutive quavers are read and played as the dotted quaver and semiquaver of a triplet. It's a convention, makes for easier reading. But apparently, back in the fifties, classical musicians found it so difficult to do that Leonard Bernstein had to write out the score of West Side Story in full.
There is also the idea of swing as a jazz sub-genre in which beats 2 and 4 are accented, but I don't think the OP is referring to that.

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Re: Swing?

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:12 pm

Luis_Br wrote: By the way, I've recently discovered from Fabio Zanon that Villa-Lobos schottish theme is from a piece by Ernest Shand.
I suspect he means the Gavotte Rococo, which is in the Gendai Edition. The 4 note motif starts the same, thereafter there are similarities but its not really the same theme. Such an arpeggio motif seems rather generic and surely its a coincidence.
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