Weiss Menuet in C S-C 18/5 (ABRSM Grade 6 piece)

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Re: Weiss Menuet in C S-C 18/5 (ABRSM Grade 6 piece)

Post by Rasputin » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:17 am

I'm not sure I am playing it right as I only half remember it and don't have the score, but it seems to me that the B is a stand-in for the A and wants to go back to the A rather than up to the C. I didn't think it was so unusual to have a non-chord tone that does not resolve during the chord - it was the fact that the chord appears to contain both a non-chord tone and its resolution that struck me as surprising, especially since the resolution is to the C, which would not normally be doubled. However, if the B is actually standing in for the A rather than the C, it all makes sense.

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Mark Clifton-Gaultier
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Re: Weiss Menuet in C S-C 18/5 (ABRSM Grade 6 piece)

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:14 am

Rasputin - thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive reply.

Given your thoughts, here - attached for your further examination and understanding - a transcript (from the London manuscript) of the “menuet” under discussion.
Please note that this is not an arrangement - simply a direct representation of the notes as executed on the lute (albeit transposed to the key of C).

Some brief notes:

Bass - excepting one or two instances (marked *) the bass voice has been lifted in its entirety by one octave.

Ornaments - only one symbol occurs in the menuet i.e. “ ) “ represented here by an apostrophe. Logic leads one to deduce that this single graphic expression is employed to indicate both acciaccature and appoggiature as well as trills - according to context - a common factor being the use of the upper auxiliary.

Of special interest is the reiteration occurring in measures 1, 5, 21, 25, 35, 37 and 45.

Slurs - indicate fretting hand articulation and are a matter (on the lute) of manual expedience only.

A second kind of ornament occurs in measures 12, 19, 27 and 45. These may be described as appoggiature where both notes are sounded simultaneously. The resulting dissonance is not always resolved in a formal manner and no indication is given as to the duration of the non-harmonic tone which, in all cases, is prepared in the manner of a suspension.

Specifically - no direction to curtail the dissonance is marked, this being left to the aesthetic of the performer.

Your question regarding the graphic nomenclature i.e use of a "grace" in the typesetting of these dissonant gestures is apposite. As far as guitar arrangements are concerned the device may possibly have originated with Chiesa in his mammoth transcription of the London manuscript into standard notation which, despite a full and clear explanation, subsequent "editors" have mistakenly taken to indicate a common appoggiatura.

The result is a failure not only musically, but practically in most cases.

I hope that the above offers a little clarity and may be of some use to you - perhaps even as the basis of your own arrangement.
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Re: Weiss Menuet in C S-C 18/5 (ABRSM Grade 6 piece)

Post by Rasputin » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:51 am

That's great, thanks very much. It will be interesting to compare the transcript to the Batchelar & Wright arrangement - I will be able to retrieve my copy at some point in the next couple of weeks. Whether I'll go as far as attempting to do my own arrangement from scratch, I'm not sure, but it will probably be a useful exercise to reverse engineer the B&W one, and I might make some adjustments to it. The difference in complexity is not as much as I would have guessed, I must say.

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Re: Weiss Menuet in C S-C 18/5 (ABRSM Grade 6 piece)

Post by DerekB » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:57 am

Amid all the learned discussion above, no-one has mentioned what a wonderful piece this is. It is the piece that made me a Weiss fan. Although ABRSM set it at grade 6, I reckon it is fairly easy for that grade. The main difficulty being in the ornaments which you can omit if you are playing for your own enjoyment.
I've suffered for my music. Now it's your turn... - Seasick Steve

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