Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

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staham

Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by staham » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:41 am

I'm looking at the fingering of Brouwer Etude no 7 that I have on my "to learn" list. I'm a bit confused..

Brouwer's notes says this study is for slurs, and "as fast as possible".

However, after watching all youtube videos I've found on this piece, no-one seems to play the descending 4th to 1st finger slurs!!! Is this something people choose to skip to play "as fast as possible"? I would have thought the meaning of "as fast as possible" would mean "as fast as possible with the slurs".

In the videos I've watched, they play the section with descending slurs all in 3rd position, skipping the slurs, just walking down the strings with 2nd and 3rd fingers.

The obvious choice for me (playing the slurs) would be to start in 3rd position, do the first slur, shift position (to 4th) before the repeated note, play the repeated note, then the slur and shift again (6th) position, play the slur, shift again, and so on.

How do everyone else finger this piece?

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George Crocket
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Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by George Crocket » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:29 am

I would have to agree with you that
the meaning of "as fast as possible" would mean "as fast as possible with the slurs".
As you say that is the point of the exercise.

One of the problems with Youtube is that anyone can post whatever they like there. What you see should be tempered with what you yourself know.
George
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Nick Cutroneo
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Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:25 pm

In teaching this piece, I use it as a study as a slur study. As stated before, people posting on YouTube can do whatever they want and post it. While that's great, in terms of using it as a tool to help study a piece, I don't recommend it. There's no quality control. I continually warn students about watching YouTube videos. I suggest that they listen to either Ricardo Cobo or David Tanenbaum to study the piece, or videos that I have "pre-approved" on YouTube. I've even gone as far as to create a Playlist for students so they can easily access the videos that I suggest. I am also working on putting up videos of the first 10 Brouwer studies performed by myself (currently I have the 1st and 2nd study). I'm hoping to finish that project this summer.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

staham

Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by staham » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:44 pm

Thanks. I found a fingering that I think works well for me. I'll use that instead. Some of the slurs go to open strings, which I first didn't want, but I saw someone else doing something similar.. :-)

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Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by George Crocket » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:01 pm

staham wrote:.... Some of the slurs go to open strings, which I first didn't want, but I saw someone else doing something similar.. :-)
I think that is part of the study, not to be avoided.

I am glad you are getting it sorted, but as Nick Cutroneo said, don't rely too much on Youtube videos.
George
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2012 Stephen Eden cedar/IRW classical guitar

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Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:15 am

staham wrote:Thanks. I found a fingering that I think works well for me. I'll use that instead. Some of the slurs go to open strings, which I first didn't want, but I saw someone else doing something similar.. :-)
The fingering given in the study are quite good, and I wouldn't go about changing it initially. If you start every scale with I, you come out to all good string crossings and a RH fingering that allows you to play the piece quite fast. Slurring to an open string isn't bad and shouldn't be avoided.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

staham

Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by staham » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:29 am

I don't have a single fingering in that study, other than what I've jotted down myself. I have the Eschig edition.

staham

Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by staham » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:47 am

I talked to a friend and he sent me a scan of his copy. This has fingerings for both left and right hand printed! Looks much nicer than the Eschig edition.

One thing I noted though, while transferring the fingerings to my printed sheet, there is a difference in bar 13.

On my, Eschig edition, Bar 13 consists of three identical slurs. These are the notes: b -slur- e e - b -slur- e e - b -slur- e e.
On the scan I got, the notes are b -slur- e e - e e e - e e e

I've read that there are lots of errors in the Eschig edition. Can this be one of them?

Edit: Answering myself, no, I don't think so. It sounds much better with the slurs.

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Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:11 pm

staham wrote:I don't have a single fingering in that study, other than what I've jotted down myself. I have the Eschig edition.
To keep the integrity of the slurs, there is really only one way of fingering the piece. That's probably why the editors didn't put in any fingerings.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

staham

Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by staham » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:01 pm

Yes, I believe that is the case, as the fingerings I had jotted down proved to be identical to the ones given on the scan I got. The only thing I really had to add was the RH fingerings, as I hadn't thought about them at all.

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Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by Luis_Br » Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:36 am

I think it is better to play your version from the score before listening to other players. Watch other players only after you've built up your own interpretation from the score.
Don't forget the dynamics contrasts and the rests, they are also very important in this study.
I finger RH with p,i all the slur parts. I think it generates a nice articulated result together with the speed.
I don't know which videos you've seen at youtube, but if you search there you will find a nice rendition of this piece by the great Tilman Hoppstock and he does all the written slurs.
FIrst decending slur finger 4 to 1, then finger 1 to open string. Then finger 2 fourth fret, to open strings. Hand always in stable 3rd position and using open strings, a very guitaristic effect. The other sequence there is also a pattern: slur finger 4 to 1, then slur finger 1 to open string.
Don't forget the crescendo "molto", then there is a marcato, and there are the subitos, right after the rests and the comma. There is also an important sff and the second time it is sul ponticello, and at the end it is 'secco". So all of them should sound different from each other...
I don't think there are errors at this MS edition. Bar 13 is b-e-e, b-e-e, b-e-e as in the MSed. The error I remember is the total time marked at the end of each piece. I've seen Brouwer saying to a student in a masterclass not to folloow that time. He said it was used for copyright reasons and we shouldn't follow those time indications.

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Re: Brouwer Etude 7 - fingerings, slurs or no slurs

Post by larryguitar » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:43 pm

Ok, I started to take a run at this and could use some help. Could somebody send me a version with their fingerings to get me started? PM me.

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