Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:16 pm

Gohar Vardanyan teaching an excellent lesson on relaxing the tip joints (she uses the term buckle) for rest strokes. I asked her if she also let the tip joints buckle for free stroke. She initially said no, something about the hand position that made the buckling more likely on rest strokes than free strokes. But then came back and said her tip joints buckle *some* for free stroke as well, more with m, but not always.
Here's a direct quote: "The buckling mostly helps with making sure that your hand is relaxed. If your hand is relaxed, you will have more control over it, you can play faster and longer scales without getting tired." This is a good reminder that we can't always trust what a concert guitarist says they are doing. It's not that they are intentionally deceiving, not at all, they just aren't always aware of what their fingers are actually doing. They often developed the technique very young and it's just so natural and they never had to understand exactly how the fingers moved because it just naturally worked for them. Enter slow motion video analysis to improve our quality of life. :-)

See 1:20 min

Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:27 pm

Angel Romero teaching to collapse the tip joints for free strokes. He says "collapse a little", ha ha ha, someone will object to that one for sure. Can you collapse a little?

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An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:53 pm

Check out this closeup of Angel Romero playing Sor at 7:00 min. Stoke is as follows: 1.MCP flexion brings finger to string 2. PIP flexion w/DIP doing? and MCP extending

Youtube
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

SteveL123
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by SteveL123 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Hi Guit-box, how do I post a youtube picture link instead of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUk-tXQ2wAo ? I am using a chromebook. Every tutorial I've found online so far does not work!
SteveL123 wrote:This is my first attempt at learning tremolo. I've memorized the first 10 measures over the last 3 days and been practicing it slowly with a metronome. I've never video-ed myself before and I notice my whole hand is moving in this video. What is causing that? Could it be due to my bad habit of resting my arm on the guitar too much. Besides that, what else am I doing wrong? Am I using my finger joints correctly?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/dUk-tXQ2wAo

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dUk-tXQ2wAo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dUk-tXQ2wAo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Last edited by SteveL123 on Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:08 pm

This player is great. Watch 1:50min and see a hugely supinated wrist position and reaching out for the string and pulling back from PIP while MCP extends. It's working just fine, it's the method books that get it wrong.


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An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

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guitarrista
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guitarrista » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:38 pm

SteveL123 wrote:how do I post a youtube picture link instead of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUk-tXQ2wAo ? I am using a chromebook. Every tutorial I've found online so far does not work!
Only insert the code after the 'v=' (in this case, the 'dUk-tXQ2wAo' part) within the youtube tags within the message.

Code: Select all

[youtube]dUk-tXQ2wAo[/youtube]
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:39 pm

SteveL123 wrote:Hi Guit-box, how do I post a youtube picture link instead of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUk-tXQ2wAo ? I am using a chromebook. Every tutorial I've found online so far does not work!
SteveL123 wrote:This is my first attempt at learning tremolo. I've memorized the first 10 measures over the last 3 days and been practicing it slowly with a metronome. I've never video-ed myself before and I notice my whole hand is moving in this video. What is causing that? Could it be due to my bad habit of resting my arm on the guitar too much. Besides that, what else am I doing wrong? Am I using my finger joints correctly?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/dUk-tXQ2wAo

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dUk-tXQ2wAo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You use the YouTube tags in the text editor and put the id for you video inbetween. dUk-tXQ2wAo is the id for your video

Code: Select all

[youtube]dUk-tXQ2wAo[/youtube]
If you can post a video with a better angle, say from the 12th or 7th fret of the 1st string so we can see the side of your fingers, that would be better. Can't see much of anything the joints are doing in that camera position. That said, it might be something you'd be better off posting as its own topic since this thread seems to have limited interest, probably because it's such a hot button topic. It's also mostly about analyzing concert guitarists and not so much a beginner thread. I'd gladly look at a better video and comment about it on another thread.
Last edited by guit-box on Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:12 pm

There's nothing wrong with this playing. Main knuckle brings the finger to the string and then it reverses course as the other joints do the work of plucking/releasing the string.

[Link removed for copyright reasons. Search YouTube for: Zsófia Boros – Nocturne (Mathias Duplessy) ]
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

CactusWren
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by CactusWren » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:14 pm

guitarrista wrote:
CactusWren wrote: Tom is a good example of destroying your body's natural intelligence through ...
What the hell is going on here? Tom is an active member. How about some manners? :contrat: :roll:
Excuse me? Tom and I have both participated in public discussion forums for decades and taken the risk of extensively documenting our goals and our playing with videos. Which is more than I can say for 99% of players. I am not going to hold back on my analysis of his public, let me again emphasize public, offerings. Hopefully people can learn from them instead of taking offense.

The whole point of this thread is to show how reality differs from received wisdom, and I don't know many better examples. Tom is a big boy and has a thick skin, he can take it.

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guitarrista
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guitarrista » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:28 pm

That context would have been very useful to provide before you start commenting out of the blue on someone's "body natural intelligence" - not after you get a reasonable reaction based on the available information - don't you think?
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

SteveL123
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by SteveL123 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:31 pm

guit-box wrote:
SteveL123 wrote:Hi Guit-box, how do I post a youtube picture link instead of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUk-tXQ2wAo ? I am using a chromebook. Every tutorial I've found online so far does not work!
SteveL123 wrote:This is my first attempt at learning tremolo. I've memorized the first 10 measures over the last 3 days and been practicing it slowly with a metronome. I've never video-ed myself before and I notice my whole hand is moving in this video. What is causing that? Could it be due to my bad habit of resting my arm on the guitar too much. Besides that, what else am I doing wrong? Am I using my finger joints correctly?

https://www.youtube.com/embed/dUk-tXQ2wAo

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dUk-tXQ2wAo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You use the YouTube tags in the text editor and put the id for you video inbetween. dUk-tXQ2wAo is the id for your video

Code: Select all

[youtube]dUk-tXQ2wAo[/youtube]
If you can post a video with a better angle, say from the 12th or 7th fret of the 1st string so we can see the side of your fingers, that would be better. Can't see much of anything the joints are doing in that camera position. That said, it might be something you'd be better off posting as its own topic since this thread seems to have limited interest, probably because it's such a hot button topic. It's also mostly about analyzing concert guitarists and not so much a beginner thread. I'd gladly look at a better video and comment about it on another thread.
OK I'll try and see if that works. I don't know why youtube make it so difficult to post a picture link.

I've developed a lot interest in following this thread and it's what inspired me to want to learn the tremolo technique as well as analyzing my right hand and correcting whatever is wrong with it. I'll start another thread if you don't think analyzing a beginner's tremolo technique is appropriate in this thread.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:38 pm

CactusWren wrote:
guitarrista wrote:
CactusWren wrote: Tom is a good example of destroying your body's natural intelligence through ...
What the hell is going on here? Tom is an active member. How about some manners? :contrat: :roll:
Excuse me? Tom and I have both participated in public discussion forums for decades and taken the risk of extensively documenting our goals and our playing with videos. Which is more than I can say for 99% of players. I am not going to hold back on my analysis of his public, let me again emphasize public, offerings. Hopefully people can learn from them instead of taking offense.

The whole point of this thread is to show how reality differs from received wisdom, and I don't know many better examples. Tom is a big boy and has a thick skin, he can take it.
Exactly. It's easy to criticize someone else's efforts, it's a lot more difficult to offer actual content of your own and allow others to critique it.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:57 am

Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:42 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
guit-box wrote:
SteveL123 wrote:Hi Guit-box, how do I post a youtube picture link instead of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUk-tXQ2wAo ? I am using a chromebook. Every tutorial I've found online so far does not work!

You use the YouTube tags in the text editor and put the id for you video inbetween. dUk-tXQ2wAo is the id for your video

Code: Select all

[youtube]dUk-tXQ2wAo[/youtube]
If you can post a video with a better angle, say from the 12th or 7th fret of the 1st string so we can see the side of your fingers, that would be better. Can't see much of anything the joints are doing in that camera position. That said, it might be something you'd be better off posting as its own topic since this thread seems to have limited interest, probably because it's such a hot button topic. It's also mostly about analyzing concert guitarists and not so much a beginner thread. I'd gladly look at a better video and comment about it on another thread.
OK I'll try and see if that works. I don't know why youtube make it so difficult to post a picture link.

I've developed a lot interest in following this thread and it's what inspired me to want to learn the tremolo technique as well as analyzing my right hand and correcting whatever is wrong with it. I'll start another thread if you don't think analyzing a beginner's tremolo technique is appropriate in this thread.
Thank you, I'm sure you'll get more replies if you start a different thread than post it here. I think all the alpha male arguing from a few loud voices on this thread has turned many people away.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

SteveL123
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:05 pm

Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by SteveL123 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:48 pm

guit-box wrote:
CactusWren wrote:
guitarrista wrote:
What the hell is going on here? Tom is an active member. How about some manners? :contrat: :roll:
Excuse me? Tom and I have both participated in public discussion forums for decades and taken the risk of extensively documenting our goals and our playing with videos. Which is more than I can say for 99% of players. I am not going to hold back on my analysis of his public, let me again emphasize public, offerings. Hopefully people can learn from them instead of taking offense.

The whole point of this thread is to show how reality differs from received wisdom, and I don't know many better examples. Tom is a big boy and has a thick skin, he can take it.
Exactly. It's easy to criticize someone else's efforts, it's a lot more difficult to offer actual content of your own and allow others to critique it.
Well, I posted a video of my own for people to criticize but then was told to post it elsewhere. :shock:

I may have missed it but have you posted a video of your own?

guit-box
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:57 am

Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:55 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
guit-box wrote:
CactusWren wrote: Excuse me? Tom and I have both participated in public discussion forums for decades and taken the risk of extensively documenting our goals and our playing with videos. Which is more than I can say for 99% of players. I am not going to hold back on my analysis of his public, let me again emphasize public, offerings. Hopefully people can learn from them instead of taking offense.

The whole point of this thread is to show how reality differs from received wisdom, and I don't know many better examples. Tom is a big boy and has a thick skin, he can take it.
Exactly. It's easy to criticize someone else's efforts, it's a lot more difficult to offer actual content of your own and allow others to critique it.
Well, I posted a video of my own for people to criticize but then was told to post it elsewhere. :shock:

I may have missed it but have you posted a video of your own?
SteveL123, you weren't told, you were kindly asked. On top of that I answered all your questions about how to embed a video and offered advice about camera angles and said I'd gladly comment about it on your own thread. So, I don't understand the beef, I've already been extremely helpful. This thread is about videos of professionals. Or at least semi-professionals, not so much someone just trying out tremolo for the first time.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

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