Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Classical Guitar technique: studies, scales, arpeggios, theory
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SteveL123
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by SteveL123 » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:02 pm

guit-box wrote:
SteveL123 wrote:
guit-box wrote:
Exactly. It's easy to criticize someone else's efforts, it's a lot more difficult to offer actual content of your own and allow others to critique it.
Well, I posted a video of my own for people to criticize but then was told to post it elsewhere. :shock:

I may have missed it but have you posted a video of your own?
SteveL123, you weren't told, you were kindly asked. On top of that I answered all your questions about how to embed a video and offered advice about camera angles and said I'd gladly comment about it on your own thread. So, I don't understand the beef, I've already been extremely helpful. This thread is about videos of professionals. Or at least semi-professionals, not so much someone just trying out tremolo for the first time.
Guit-box, no beef intended. Told, asked..., I was not offended. I think it's good to see videos of all levels, not just the experts. That's why I posted mine. Also why I like to see videos from participants in this thread for discussion so we can learn the good from the bad.

btw, I created a test thread to try out your suggestions on youtube picture link. Not working so far.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:35 pm

I sent you a PM with how to do it. Press "post reply" , don't press the quick reply or you won't get the text editor. Then click on the "YouTube" buttons above the text editor. Then cut/paste the youtube ID (that string of characters I gave you) and put it between the [youtube] tags.

If you post your own thread, I will meet you over there and explain it again if you need it.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:55 pm

Check out this very unusual technique at 0:45min and slow it down to 1/2 speed. I actually have a beginner student who has enough control of tip joint flexion in their index finger that allows them to pluck from it, much like this player, but I've never seen a player with advanced skills do this.

[Link removed for copyright reasons.]
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:12 pm

If you're not getting enough contentious debate about the right hand here, also check out this discussion on the flamenco forum http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=30 ... =1&smode=1 This flamenco forum has the advantage of having some concert level guitarists participating and posting videos of themselves. In a nutshell, it appears that flamenco guitarists are even more divided about MCP vs PIP than classical guitarists, so many take a side and stick to it. I agree with the people who think all joints are involved.

More specifically, the firing order of the joints is as follows:

1. MCP brings finger tip to the string and presses the string, effectively applying some energy in the form of pressure or momentum
2. PIP applies some flexion pressure to further load the string and sometimes collapse or slightly and passively extend the tip joint (DIP)
3. DIP applies some flexion pressure of its own and PIP/DIP follow thru into palm or towards the resting string (for rest stroke). Then simultaneously the MCP stops exerting force and extends. (this is the actual moment that the sound is heard)

The important point is that the MCP can only apply flexion that is more or less perpendicular to the soundboard, so once it applies its force, there's a limit to how much more it can flexion -- the strings will bottom out against the frets. But the tip and middle joints can apply flexion that is more or less parallel to the string. Release the string "towards the resting string" as both Grisha Goryachev and Kevin Gallagher have said online. Therefore, in other words, the MCP is applying pre-plucking pressure or momentum, but it shouldn't release the string to vibrate, only PIP and DIP should do that.

For rest strokes with a strong MCP component, the finger tip is already less than a few millimeters from the resting string, so the release involves only a tiny distance. I believe this contributes to the incorrect belief that MCP is responsible for the entire stroke: plant, pressure, collapse, release.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

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guitarrista
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guitarrista » Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:12 pm

guit-box wrote: The important point is that the MCP can only apply flexion that is more or less perpendicular to the soundboard..
This is completely incorrect, so your entire "important point" is wrong as it does not pass the basic physics test. There are both a perpendicular and a horizontal components to the force at the string the shares of which depend on where the fulcrum of the MCP joint is in relation to the fingertip. Both horizontal and perpendicular components are present in non-extreme configurations and certainly are present in conventional hand positions for free and rest strokes. I am sure you will take this into account. :bye:
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:05 pm

David Dyakov -- not shy about using his middle joint.

[Link removed for copyright reasons. Search YouTube for: David Dyakov plays Hora by Stepan Rak ]
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

ROMC
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by ROMC » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:35 pm

guit-box : I do not like how David Dyakov played, I think his interpretation is bad , you need to listen Dimitris Kotronakis and to see his beautiful technique (right and left hand)

[Link removed for copyright reasons. Search YouTube for: Stepan Rak: Gora (Kotronakis Dimitris) ]

guit-box
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by guit-box » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:51 pm

ROMC wrote:guit-box : I do not like how David Dyakov played, I think his interpretation is bad , you need to listen Dimitris Kotronakis and to see his beautiful technique (right and left hand)

[Link removed for copyright reasons. Search YouTube for: Stepan Rak: Gora (Kotronakis Dimitris) ]
I like them both fine, thanks for posting. It wasn't the interpretation or the composition that interested me, but interesting techniques that point out what would be considered bad by commonly accepted pedagogy is actually done quite regularly by concert guitarists. For instance, both Dyakov and Kotronakis use quite a lot of movement from the middle joint of the index finger--extending way past midrange. If you were to believe some teachers, like Aaron Shearer for instance, a guitarist would never consider playing like that. But, it happens all the time, teachers are sometimes wrong.
An eyewitness will often only see what he already believes to be true.

ROMC
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by ROMC » Mon May 01, 2017 3:33 am

guit-box : Yes guitar-box , teachers are sometimes wrong. Maybe this right had technique interests you:


Youtube

Elman Concepcion
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Elman Concepcion » Sat May 06, 2017 8:18 pm

ROMC wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 3:33 am
guit-box : Yes guitar-box , teachers are sometimes wrong. Maybe this right had technique interests you:


Youtube
Dimitris Kotronakis "pick technique"
That technique was insane in a really good way !!!
It breaks a lot of dogma in a really short time / efficient way.

Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat May 06, 2017 8:46 pm

nm
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

Lawler
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Lawler » Sat May 06, 2017 11:02 pm

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 8:46 pm
nm
I saw your comment before it was gone and thought it was good. IMO, changing the cult name mentioned to something less severe would have been a perfect edit.

Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat May 06, 2017 11:45 pm

Thanks Lawler. I just realized that I didn't want to get drawn in to an aggravating back and forth. I remain bewildered by the moderator's hands off position.
Paul Weaver spruce 2014
Takamine C132S

ROMC
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by ROMC » Sun May 07, 2017 1:19 am

Elman Concepcion yes , the "pick technique" is a new way,but remember , the pinky finger technique(left hand) of Charles Postlewate is a complement too and the thumb finger technique of the left hand. I mean , all these "new" techniques are the right way for the ultimate 10 fingers technique

Lawler
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Re: Right Hand Technique & - Concert Guitarist Slow Motion Videos

Post by Lawler » Sun May 07, 2017 2:39 am

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 11:45 pm
I didn't want to get drawn in to an aggravating back and forth
I hear you, bud.

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